Marty knew the killers?

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Marty knew the killers?

Postby campcricklewood » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:18 am

I've only just signed up and this is my first post. If anything I write has already been touched on, I'm sorry.

There was word about Dana possibly having someone after him on the day. Say this was drug related and Marty or 'Bo' knew the dealers and pointed them to where to find Dana, does anyone know how well Dana knew or was friends with the Smartt family? Did he know the children well or both parents?

Its possible the killers received word from Marty or Bo that Justin would be staying at Sue's house and not to touch him or get him involved. They wanted to wait at Sue's house till John and Dana came home and then get them to reveal where the drugs had been stored. I would say both killers would have been agitated and willing to use force to get answers and they were both intoxicated or stoned maybe? Thus, explaining the excessive and sadistic level of violence and damage to the house.

Say Justin looked out of the room and did see Dana run for the back door, this would automatically suggest Dana knew one or both the killers and panicked as soon as he saw them. Later on it is possible like Justin said, he came out and tried to cover Sue's wound to stop the bleeding but this would have to of been early on or he'd of got blood on himself and he was told to go back to the bedroom.

Tiny may have come out of her mother's room where she was sleeping and was used to show the killers where the playhouse was after John or Sue were forced to dress her. She walked them to the playhouse and they ripped up the boards to find the drugs.

Anything that happened after this, I'm not sure. It seems for some reason either John or Sue were on the bed for awhile, where they were bleeding and then moved to the lounge room. Sue was probably covered up to stop her screaming and her distress from seeing her son John or maybe both boys being attacked. This could have also been an emotional response from one of the killers but she could've also been covered after she died but still have a sense of remorse coming from one or both of the killers, as she probably wasn't involved at all.
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Postby jhancock » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:22 pm

Some really nice points here. Thank you for joining us. :)

From what I know of the Wingate family overall, there was little connection between them and Marty. Most PCSO believe there is a connection between the drugs that Dana and Johnny stole and Marty, so Marty probably knew Dana, or knew of him.

The police also believe that they were tortured, as if to get information, based on their wounds. The crime scene photos (not the ones on the site or in the documentary) suggest this strongly, too.
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Marty knew the killers?

Postby campcricklewood » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:00 am

Hey, thanks for the encouraging words and feedback.

Thats interesting to hear that the PCSO also have some suspicions of Marty possibly being involved with or knew the killers somehow, I just don't believe that Marty was one of them. It explains why he would want to be so cooperative with the police and all the phone calls, he felt guilty for his initial involvement or scared people might find out, so he wanted to do everything he could to take their sights away from him by naively being so helpful or to throw them off, incase it led back to him.

Although at home its been said he told his kids or what ever to never talk about it again. And it makes sense but is of course shocking to hear, the police believing the victim's were tortured to obtain information.

Thanks
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Postby Night Rider » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:55 pm

Many of us have been around here for a few years.

I don't know of many of us who do not either believe he was involved, or knows exactly who was and WHY.
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Marty knew the killers?

Postby campcricklewood » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:32 am

Well yes,

I'm glad soo many people still care about this matter and that nobody believes Marty's lies.
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Postby craig » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:49 pm

The yellow house ripoff in East Quincy happened on April 6th in the
afternoon, some 5 days before the murders and it was John John
and Dana who went into the house and stole the drugs. I had taken them
over to East Quincy not knowing the real reasons as they told me they had
to get something in East Quincy..i had a tan Toyota Corona station wagon
hatchback so i like many times before, drove people around ..

i stayed in the car while they went in and it was not until they got back into
the car that i knew what they had done.........

several sheets of acid and bags of marijuana

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THIS DRUG RIPOFF HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE
MURDERS THOUGH MANY NOW THINK IT DID.......i only drove friends out to East
Quincy, like i drove others during that time.

i still have a picture of my old tan Toyota Corona Station wagon in my garage.
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Postby geegee » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:15 am

Marty brought the killers to the Sharps house that night thanking they would just scare Johnny and Dana into giving the drugs back.I thank it just got out of hand and Marty was there at least in the beginning of the attacks ,hence his prints on the glass.out of what ever connection the killers had with Marty they didn't mess with Justin.I really thank Marty was some how working as a reluctant informant for the police,after his earlier arrest.He most likely knew the the boys took the drugs .I don't believe he ever expected such a horrible out come.His behavior after the murders makes him a real coward.
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Postby mechelle69 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:57 am

geegee-
didn't Doug Thomas say that Marty would call often with tips that would point away from himself? why call at all? i think you are right that he had some kind of relationship with LE.
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Postby noom » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:11 pm

So a 15 year old and a 17 year old snuck into a house of a drug dealer in the middle of the day, stole several sheets of acid and some "bags" of marijuana" while you waited in your tan Toyota Corona station wagon?
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Marty knew the killers?

Postby campcricklewood » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:49 am

There's no way two strangers or even two teenage boys that some dealers knew would just let them walk in to some people's house and just take anything they want, it's not like it was all just conveniently sitting on a table for them to grab, someone inside the house obviously gave them permission to take the stuff or double crossed their own friends to let those boys take what they did.

Though we have no idea this drugs spin on the events is actually what got people killed.
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Re: Marty knew the killers?

Postby noom » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:27 am

Bingo! :)
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Postby dcheryl83 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:40 am

Oh its possible alright. I grew up in the 70/80's and plenty of people I knew dealt drugs. It wasn't like you see on tv with a bunch of gun toting thugs meeting on the street corner.

These people were brothers or sisters of some of my friends or just people from school. You could go to their homes and there would be stuff laying around and people going in and out at their leisure. The ones that lived at home had crap in their bedrooms and if you happened to be there when they pulled it out, you knew where they kept their stash and cash.
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Postby not sure » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:03 am

Okay, that being said, who's house was it then? Seriously. Who's house was it?

Craig claimed it was Marty's drugs they ripped off. But Marty didn't live there. I just don't think Marty would have been able to afford a drug house. He was living in Keddie in affordable housing. Why stay in a tiny house in Keddie if there was a nicer house in Quincy? Wouldn't you think they would have reversed their living quarters?

The boys didn't know Marty well enough to know where he would have stashed his dope. Or did they know him better than anyone is letting on?

Imo, the only drug dealers who would murder 4 people would be big time dealers who had been ripped off big-time. Even in the 70s/80s it was highly unlikely they would leave their drugs laying around or their doors unlocked for 2 teens to just walk in and take their drugs. Drug dealers who kill are not your brother's friends who keep their stash in their bedrooms.

Of course there is another scenario that hasn't been mentioned, recently at least and that is one where one of the boys ripped off the drug dealer at gunpoint. Let's say they knocked on the door, the dealer opens the door expecting to sell to the teens and ends up getting ripped off instead. Highly foolish and not in sync with what we know about these 2 boys but it's a possibility.

Not saying I believe that scenario but it makes more sense than them just walking in and walking out with drugs. And it might explain the gun piece being found at the scene.

As for Marty being associated with the drug house...the only thing that sticks in my head is that someone else set him up on that deal and he would just have been an appendage of something much bigger. And if that were the case, the yellow house dwellers would be the ones I'd be looking for not Marty.

Any way to get the address of the "yellow" house and find out who owned it through out the years?
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Postby noom » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:19 am

dcheryl83 wrote:Oh its possible alright. I grew up in the 70/80's and plenty of people I knew dealt drugs. It wasn't like you see on tv with a bunch of gun toting thugs meeting on the street corner.

These people were brothers or sisters of some of my friends or just people from school. You could go to their homes and there would be stuff laying around and people going in and out at their leisure. The ones that lived at home had crap in their bedrooms and if you happened to be there when they pulled it out, you knew where they kept their stash and cash.


It's a far stretch from being your neighborhood casual drug dealer to murder and kidnapping.
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Postby Night Rider » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:18 pm

Richard once mentioned the name "Glen Plashorne(sp) and that was confirmed to me.

He's the one who rode his motorcycle down to the La Porte bridge to commit suicide.

It was also suggested years ago that the house was owned by the pastor of the nearby church.

Years ago Ista came up with about 25 names who lived at the same address as "Teach" did. I fear that a search of the yellow house might come up with another gaggle of useless info.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:12 pm

noom wrote:[
It's a far stretch from being your neighborhood casual drug dealer to murder and kidnapping.


Never said anything about murders or kidnappers......I simply stated that it wasn't so unbelivable that 2 teenage boys could go in and steal drugs from someones house.
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Postby Night Rider » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:50 pm

I concur with that thought. I can envision some scenarios where it could be possible.

No one is really equating the rip-off with the murders. Especially considering how it went down.

Drug dealers can be rather territorial, and they have a lot to lose, Like "A good thing." and a few years out of their lives.

What I don't get is if the boys were the target, it was just too easy to take care of business in town that night.

I've just had a thought, what if the kids wern't carrying that night? Which would have been logical. What if they had stashed things at the cabin? Who else might have known that?? Think about that.........
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Postby dcheryl83 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:38 am

I personally think "the dealers" would have dealt with the theft in a whole different manner. Given the time period and the fact that this wasn't a big city drug ring chances are you are correct....they would have dealt with it in town or on the streets somewhere.
Whoever these dealers were I'm sure they knew Johnny and Dana, or at least who they were (small town). Highly unlikely they would go to his house in the middle of the night to confront the boys....seeing how Johnny lived with his mom and siblings.

I'm more inclined to believe that the perps where there to see Sue and the boys happen to come home. From what I have read so far I don't believe they went there to kill her. Something happened (2 possibly drunk men causing a disturbance of some kind/ attemtped rape/ plain old harrasment) the boys come home, see whats going on and a fight errupts. Really don't think any of it was planned.

What I don't understand is why they tied everyone up after they were already subdued. Kind of strange.
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Postby the celt » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:55 am

Also why would the drug dealers over kill these people and yet leave the driver , who took the boys to the house (drug rip off) the same person who drove the boys back to keddie that night( April,10Th) alive? I know he said that he was severely beaten and in not saying he wasnt but what made them stop and not kill him? If they wanted him dead he would be. Maybe it was because he was the driver and didnt steal any drugs i dont know but with the extreme overkill , why leave him alive? Dana said that someone was after him if the killers where following them and the boys where seen alot that evening in numerous places, wouldnt it have been easier to take the boys then? And if the killers did follow the boys and they where seen getting into craig's car how easy it would have been to get his car off the road? Why go to the cabin at all? IF THE DRUGS WHERE THE REASON.
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