why this case was not solved?

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

why this case was not solved?

Postby bliss » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:20 pm

There's a lot I wanted to post, but will add more when I feel better,

my "MAIN" reason, although the title may not be worded right is: IF this case gone to trial, and there was a jury, all it would take is one juror who shares any of MK's thoughts. she finds a way around any evidence, as clear as it may be, to deter it away from the 2 main suspects.
There needed to be more actual evidence to take anyone to trial, especially in a county that could not afford a trial like this if there were a chance a conviction wouldn't happen.
Would Bo's shady past be allowed in as evidence?

so agree or disagree, but this is my opinion.
just sayin' :snooty:
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby tcmc » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:13 am

You are 100% correct, right on the money.

In fact, it is unlikely that a judge would have allowed the case to go to trial. Before a felony can be placed in front of a jury, a judge or a grand jury must make a finding that there is sufficient evidence to justify a trial. The burden probably would not have been met.

As for Bo, most of the evidence from his past would be allowed because he opened the door by his lies about a career in law enforcement. It would be allowed under case law that allows the state to show that a defendant's statements to investigators cannot be trusted. By the same token, Bo's past cannot be used to show that his past indicates he is a likely killer.

The state would have reimbursed Plumas County for most of the trial expenses. So, cost would not have been an issue.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby meankitty » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:45 am

I think members of a jury would be wondering about some of the things I have posted, and they would be discussing them in the jury room. They would look at witness statements, the timeline, and the forensic evidence as well as the autopsy reports.

You are right about having enough evidence to go to trial, there has to be enough or the D.A. won't take it to trial. I also have a feeling any defense attorney could have a field day with Justin and Marilyn.

I do have more to post also, but I think I'll wait.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby tcmc » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:01 pm

Juries are legally forbidden from discussing information (or the absence of information) that is not presented as evidence to the jury. It is grounds for a mistrial or, in absence of that, grounds to overturn a conviction.

In the abstract, the case was solved. But the absence of the kind of evidence that would convince a judge to order a trial was absent.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby Eastern » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:23 pm

I fully see what you are saying bliss, but I also think it may have been used as a convenient excuse to not prosecute. There doesn't seem to be any follow-up after Marde's confession, more testing of forensic evidence, and additional checking of suspects. No arrests for even a few days while they checked out Marde and Bo? People are arrested on a lot less everyday than the stories those two told during their interviews. LE had stories that Tina was pregnant by Marde, she was abducted and her mother brutally murdered, but that angle ends there? Very strange. LE has a rough job when investigating four murders and I wouldn't wish that job on anybody, but there still seems to be a lot more they could have done to build a case. The D.A. always takes a big risk with juries and there's always the possibility they'll get an mk type...sorry mk. There have been murder cases successfully tried on strictly circumstantial evidence before.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby tcmc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:00 pm

Interesting points you have made.

Of course, cases are tried (and won) based on circumstantial evidence. It would be safe to say that the majority of cases are won at trial, based on circumstantial evidence. People tend to misconstrue the meaning of circumstantial evidence. Essentially, it is evidence that excludes other scenarios other than the win that results in a conviction.

However, as correctly pointed out elsewhere, a confession or admission on its own cannot be used to convict someone of a felony. That is the law, as it should be. I would respectfully request that you provide a specific instance or case in which someone was "arrested on a lot less" for a felony than the information provided by Martin and Bo. Law enforcement cannot arrest people based on rumors, gossip and beliefs.

Subjecting a defendant in a felony matter, especially one involving multiple homicides, to a jury is difficult. Avoiding one is not a matter of convenience. Before a matter is tried in front of a jury, a prosecutor is required by law to either secure an indictment from a grand jury or convince a judge at a hearing that a trial is warranted.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby Eastern » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:49 pm

tcmc, was it a felony (or even against the law) for Bo to lie about being retired LE? Impersonating LE is good grounds to get them riled up and go for an arrest. He also had fake ID's on him that could have fairly easily been checked further and lied about being Marilyn's uncle...have to wonder why. How about an eyewitness (Justin) naming Marde and Bo to LE? For some reason that fact is always left out of the equation. Better yet, a confession to a therapist, in addition to an eyewitness account that Marde and Bo were the killers. No, a confession doesn't stand alone, but in addition to other things, it builds a stronger case. Then there's the accounts purportedly told by LE to others that Tina was pregnant by Marde. It seems terribly odd that those things weren't further checked and let slide.

I've sat on a felony case (not a murder trial) that was tried on strictly circumstantial evidence. I do understand the difficulties of doing so, but there's just way too many questionable things that weren't followed up on when it pertains to Marde and Bo in at least an attempt to build a case.
Last edited by Eastern on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby coffee is love » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:22 am

example: Chandra Levy's case.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby awareness » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: evidence, its also unfortunate that some of the limited physical evidence wasnt looked after properly over the years or was otherwise compromised. That would definitely be an issue at trial. One has to wonder if money wasnt an option, if they'd lift a finger to do anything. There's multiple law enforcement embarrassments in this case. IMO though it wouldnt be too much for L.E. to get together though and really take a new look at this case. Perhaps issue some kind of statement renewing public interest and officially naming whomever/persons is at the top of their list as a POI. It'd at least be a step in the right direction for the sake of the families, regardless if it would ever go to trial. Bo is assumed dead IIRC? I am new here, apologize for my lack of firm knowledge.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby tcmc » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:09 pm

The physical evidence, potentially containing DNA and other similar matter, was always poor. But the mediocre (at best) preservation is harmful, not because it contains evidence that would assist in a conviction. Rather, a defense attorney could correctly and devastatingly argue that the defendant was, or defendants were, denied potentially exculpatory evidence.

This mishandling of evidence cannot be blamed on the current administration. This is a decades-only problem.
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Re: why this case was not solved?

Postby dmac » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:05 pm

Back to Bliss' title for this thread:

Why this case was never SOLVED.

All that's been discussed here is what may have happened had it got so far as a grand jury. With Plumas' history of misconduct, corruption, and political backstabbing, that's an entirely different animal. My argument is that the 'investigation' was (intentionally) derailed so it would never get so far as prosecution.

If you wanna look at why the case was never SOLVED, you gottal look at DT and his spoonbending method of investigation. You must look at the political atmosphere in Plumas- a very unhealthy atmosphere that doesn't appear to have improved with time. You've got to look at the first report on the case we know of that future Sheriff Stoy submitted, a report that is clearly doctored to imply PCSO knew immediately Tina was missing. It appears to be Stoy's handwriting, so did he doctor it? How did he become the very person that eventually was in charge of the investigation?

You've got to look at whether DT and Marderer were, indeed, friends. Why was he led out of town after a knife-fight and the ensuing incriminating shouting episode in lockup? Why was all the incriminating evidence against Bo and Marderer collected by PCSO and DOJ conveniently ignored?

You have to look at thousands of points we've already discussed as to why this case wasn't solved, including the bigger picture of possible drug corruption and the Keddie influence on same- which has nothing to do with Cabin 28, but everything to do with why 28 was ignored.

You also have to look at bigger things, like how America runs it's 'law enforcement' and 'judicial' systems. Do you think it's logical to allow voters to choose unqualified coroners for their jurisdiction? Do you think it's fair for Sheriffs or other law enforcement to be their own coroners, so they choose how someone died and whether anybody- including LE- should be held accountable? Do you think it's suitable that America has no standard for how MEs should proceed, what equipment they have, or even whether they are qualified to do their jobs?

Look at Plumas closely as an example. It certainly doesn't deserve anymore scrutiny or shame than any other county in particular, save for the fact our case revolves around the political atmosphere and corruption of Plumas. For instance, look at all the upheaval in the Sheriff's office alone- the corruption, accusations, threats, illegal dismissals. Tip of the iceberg. Then look at how LE interacts with the other political systems in Quincy/Plumas, as described here (for instance)

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-05/ ... mas-county

Looks like Plumas in 1981 was full of Mayor Vaughns with not a single Chief Brody in sight. "Fellows, let's be reasonable, huh? This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock. I'm only trying to say that Amity is a summer town. We need summer dollars. Now, if the people can't swim here, they'll be glad to swim at the beaches of Cape Cod, the Hamptons, Long Island... "

Meanwhile, the killers go free.

Anybody involved with LE, the judiciary, or penal system in this country who opines that the system is fair or adequate are, themselves, criminally insane.
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