810414 Boubede DOJ 'interview'- complete

[jhancock]

ATTN: This edit to Josh's post is by dmac. The following transcript is a sham and fraud, containing many intentional omissions and inaccuracies. The true transcript, taken directly from the original interview tape, is found here.

The following is the entire transcript of Bo's interview with the DOJ. The typed version below is word for word, including all grammar and punctuation.

Crim: This will be an interview with Mr. John S. Boubede, capital Boubede, this the correct address, John?

John: Yes.

Crim: [address] Reno, Nevada by Special Agents Harry Bradley and P.E. Crim, Jr., California Department of Justice conducted at the Keddie Resort, banquet room of the main building. Time is approximately 1027 am.

Bradley: O.K. John, up the house there, maybe I better move that tape over a little bit so it picks up on everybody talking. It's understand that Mr. Smart mentioned that we were coming out here.

John: Ah, yah.

Bradley: He called a little earlier?

John: Ah, yes, he had called a short time before.

Bradley: Now, today.

John: Yah.

Bradley: He said we were coming out to talk to you?

John: Yah.

Bradley: O.K., and the reason why we want to talk to you right now is the fact that we understand that you might be leaving the area.

John: Yah, sometime this evening, as a matter of fact.

Bradley: We're primarily interested in if you saw or heard anything Saturday night. You know what occurred down the street?

John: Yes.

Bradley: At the home over there.

Crim: Where those people were talking about the situation.

Bradley: You were here Saturday night, right?

John: Yes sir.

Bradley: O.K., and I understood possibly this is hearsay, that you may have went out and down to the bar and so forth?

John: Yes, ah, Marilyn, Mrs. Smartt.

Bradley: Is that Marilyn, Mrs. Smartt's first name, Marilyn?

John: Yes, ah Mrs. Smartt, Mr. Smartt and myself had went down there approximately, oh 9:30 - 10:00.

Bradley: 9:30 or 10:00. Now, what's Mr. Smartt's first name?

John: Ah, Marty.

Bradley: Marty. We've never met him, so I don't know. The three of you went down to the bar?

John: Yes.

Bradley: I take it you walked over there?

John: Yes.

Bradley: When you got to the bar, was there many people in there? Was it big night type of thing?

John: I would say approximately 7 or 8.

Bradley: Did you know any of the other people in the bar?

John: No.

Bradley: Was ah, did they appear to be residents of Keddie or were they?

John: Yah, yes.

Bradley: Most of the people in the bar lived considerably...

John: Ah, I'm saying that ah Martin knew most of them.

Bradley: So he could probably help us out here?

John: Yah, yah.

Bradley: What we're trying to do is find out the people that were around that night, that particular time. Is that tape picking up? O.K., Marty, you feel Marty probably knew most of the people?

John: Yes, I did. Ah, he introduced me to one or two of them as a matter of fact. We left shortly before 1:00 because of a change in music.

Bradley: What kind of music was changed?

John: It was changed from Country and Western to ah, rock & roll and Marty had called.

Bradley: I don't blame you for leaving there.

John: Not at all, ah, Marty had called the gentleman who owned the bar as soon as we returned home and ah, complained about that. And he said that he was sorry and we went back down to have a drink and apologize to him.

Bradley: Who was the man, who did he call do you know?

John: Bill, I think.

Bradley: Bill, he's the bar manager?

John: I believe so, yes.

Bradley: Was he the guy tending bar or was there a gentleman?

John: Yes, yes he was the gentleman tending, tending the bar.

Bradley: I take when they change music, that's just the machine, they don't have live music?

John: Ah, it, they disco type thing, you know, they play the records.

Bradley: So then after you got home you made this call and then came back down, back to the bar?

John: Uh huh, uh huh, Marilyn had stayed home.

Bradley: Which, what way did you walk when you went back home?

John: Directly down this street here.

Bradley: So you came out of the bar, that's downstairs here?

John: Yes sir.

Bradley: Now when you were, when you came out of the bar, and when you came, how long was it that you were gone, that you came back?

John: You mean how long were we in the bar?

Bradley: No, I should rephrase that. When you guys didn't like the music, you left the bar, went home. Alright now, let's get that, when you came through the parking lot and up the street, did you pass the victims' house?

John: Ah yes.

Bradley: Three of you?

John: Ah, yes.

Bradley: Now did you see any, what was the condition of the house? Were there any lights on in there, do you recall?

John: Ah, I didn't notice.

Bradley: Didn't notice. Did you hear any noise from the, from within the house?

John: No.

Bradley: You didn't notice any lights or any noise?

John: No.

Bradley: What about any cars parked out front?

John: There were several cars parked right here in the immediate area.

Bradley: By here, you mean around the resort area?

John: Ah, just, ah...directly back from the resort, like, ah, towards the cabin area.

Bradley: Not down by the bar, but this parking lot over here?

John: Right.

Bradley: So there were several cars parked there?

John: Right. The only one I could tell you was a Corvair.

Bradley: Corvair? What color was it?

John: Either a very dark blue, or black.

Bradley: Had you see that around here before?

John: Ah, well, I've only been here a short time, ah, about a month.

Crim: About a month you've been here?

John: About a month. So I wouldn't be able to say.

Bradley: Was there any traffic? Any cars moving? Along the road when you and Marilyn, Mr. Smartt walked home?

John: No.

Bradley: No cars moving. After you got home, that's when Mr. Smartt called the bar? Did he do that right away?

John: Immediately.

Bradley: Did you hear what he had to say?

John: Ah he was very unhappy.

Bradley: Again, I can say I don't blame him. I hate that rock and roll. And they always have to play it so dang loud you can hardly hear. I wonder why people go for that stuff. How long after he made the complaint did you guys go back?

John: Oh, maybe 10 minutes. I felt as though we should apologize cause the way Marty had talked to him.

Bradley: Oh, what was that?

John: Well, ya know, he was, ah, darn ya know, you lost 3 good customers we come in all the time and my goodness you shouldn't do this here and your wife came in and said she's running it and this is not so. So ah, I just thought we should go back and apologize.

Bradley: Sounds like a good idea. Being he lives here, he has to probably go in there a lot.

John: Uh huh.

Bradley: Now that time when you went back, did you see any cars? Around that house up there?

John: Not that I noticed.

Bradley: Were there any lights on in the house or ay sign of a disturbance at all?

John: I wouldn't even know the house, unless you pointed it out to me.

Bradley: You don't know the house, which one we're talking about?

John: No.

Bradley: Oh, I thought you'd know. Well, we'll point it out to you on the way back. It's the second one, you know where the Seabolts live on the corner?

John: No sir.

Bradley: Hum...

John: Like I say, I've only been here about a month, I know very few people here. Relatively few.

Bradley: Ya, do you know where Justin spent the night that night?

John: Yes sir, ah, at a friend's, that's all.

Bradley: Oh, you don't know what house it was?

John: No, no.

Bradley: Since Saturday, have you seen a lot of police cars there and?

John: Oh yes, oh yes.

Bradley: Going in and out of a house?

John: Yes.

Bradley: This house right up the street?

John: Uh huh.

Bradley: That's the house I'm talking about.

John: Well, I saw them on the street but I didn't know ah, in which house.

Bradley: O.K., should have pointed that out to you on the way down. I'll do that on the way up so you know what house I'm talking about to see if you recall any, was there lights on in any of the homes?

John: Not that I recall.

Crim: Did you hear anybody talking or anybody hollering or anything like that?

John: No.

Crim: Did you see anybody walking down the street?

John: No.

Bradley: The only activity then appeared to be down around the bar?

John: Ah there wasn't too much there, there wasn't too much there, ah, there was about 5 or 6 cars parked over in that area, right there, 5 or 6.

Bradley: In the parking lot there?

John: Not at the bar, in that area over by those apartments, and I think what caught my attention was the Corvair.

Crim: Ya, you don't see too many of those around any more.

John: Huh uh, that's the first thing that caught my mind.

Bradley: When you went back to the bar then, how many people were in it then?

John: Possibly 4 or 5.

Bradley: There were less customers then.

John: Yes, yes.

Bradley: Maybe they got the message too and didn't like the music.

John: Mm, I can appreciate that.

Bradley: Were they women or men or do you remember that?

John: About half and half.

Bradley: Did you talk to the bartender when you got back?

John: Yes, ah, he apologized.

Bradley: Mr. Martin did?

John: For the music and ah

Bradley: You mean the bartender apologized?

John: Mm, he is also the owner or manager.

Crim: What's his name?

John: I believe Bill.

Bradley: So then I guess everything was hunky dory and you guys just had a couple more to drink or?

John: Ah, had one more drink and then we left and went back home.

Bradley: Mm.

Crim: Here again, you saw or heard nothing unusual?

John: Huh uh.

Crim: Saw nobody on the street, or no cars moving around?

John: Nothing at all.

Bradley: What are you normally drinking?

John: Ah, Cokes as a rule.

Bradley: Coke.

John: But that time I had a CC and Coke.

Bradley: That last time huh?

John: Yes.

Bradley: There wasn't a female bartender on duty.

John: No, male.

Bradley: Just a male.

John: Ah, Bill, I believe. Ah, female waitress.

Bradley: There was a female waitress. Do you know her name?

John: No, I don't.

Bradley: Cause they may know these people, we can get ahold of her, she may know some of those people in the bar.

John: There wasn't more than 8 or 9. Most.

Crim: In the bar?

John: At the top, when we were in there.

Bradley: How long do you think you were there on the second time around?

John: Oh, 30 minutes tops, because ah, the reason I say that is we were finishing our drink, and he said no more drinks because two are magic.

Crim: He didn't say time to close or anything like that?

John: No, he said no more drinks.

Bradley: That's for everybody?

John: Yup.

Bradley: So then what, you left, got up and left?

John: Yes.

Bradley: Was anybody in the bar after you left or?

John: Mm.

Bradley: I know there's generally people that hang around after the bar closes, shoot the bull and stuff.

John: I really don't know.

Crim: But Martin seemed to know most everybody that was in there.

John: Ah, he knew a few.

Crim: A few, not all of them.

Bradley: You don't know any of them?

John: No.

Bradley: So we're thinking around 2:00 that you guys left the bar probably.

John: Ya.

Bradley: That would be a pretty good guess?

John: Ya, ya.

Bradley: How come Marilyn didn't go back with you guys?

John: Well, we went back because Marty was upset with the bartender, ah, because of the change in music more than anything else.

Bradley: So she just stayed home, huh?

John: Ya.

Bradley: After you left here, then this would be the third time you walked back, you walked back home?

John: Uh huh.

Bradley: Did you see any activity at that time?

John: Nothing unusual.

Bradley: Nothing unusual. No lights, cars, traffic, anything.

Crim: Pertinent.

John: This is what was so surprising to me because I'm a very light sleeper and if there's an unusual noise...

Bradley: Pick right up on it.

John: Ya, and ah, I didn't hear anything at all.

Bradley: When you got back to the house, was Marilyn up or in bed or what?

John: No, she was up.

Bradley: She was still up. What's your relation to them?

John: Marilyn's my niece.

Crim: Your sister or your brother's daughter, which?

John: My sister is her mother.

Crim: Mm.

Bradley: I never get that straight, can't figure that out. This thing might go on for some time you know, be talking to a lot of people.

John: God, I hope note.

Bradley: Well, I hope not, but there's a good chance it will.

John: No, I mean in regards to the thing. So terrible, I don't think anything.

Bradley: I don't either. If we had to get a hold of you again, how could we do that?

John: Very easily, contact Marilyn. And she has my forwarding address. I'm going to Klamath Falls, Oregon to work for a police newspaper.

Bradley: What are you going to do there?

John: Sell advertisements.

Bradley: Is that your occupation?

John: Well, since I retired, yes.

Crim: You said yesterday you were a retired police officer.

John: Yes.

Crim: From where?

John: Cook County, Illinois.

Crim: Cook County, sheriff's office?

John: Yes, Sheriff's Department.

Bradley: How many years, John?

John: 18, I was retired because of a gunshot wound.

Crim: Medical disability?

John: Ya.

Bradley: Cook County S.O. Dang, I wish I could think of the guy's name. When did you leave there?

John: 1958.

Bradley: Oh.

Crim: Oh well, that kid...it's been long after that.

John: I was there when Chuck Fransine was there.

Crim: So you retired in 1958.

John: Ya, didn't want to but...

Bradley: How long had you been on there?

John: Ah, I had been on 18 years then.

Crim: What kind of deal did you, that happen, that you got shot.

John: Ah, it was in an armed robbery and ah, I was foolish enough to try and take his gun.

Bradley: Ya, that ain't too good.

John: And, ah, that's it, public felon, pumped me through my hip and through my groin, up in through here, severed some nerves and ah,

Bradley: Boy, you're lucky, dang lucky.

John: Not really, not really, I'm completely impotent.

Bradley: Oh are you really?

John: Ya.

Bradley: Done the job on you, huh?

John: Tried his damnest, tried his damnest. Got 10 years for it.

Bradley: Is that right. All he got huh, made you totally impotent though huh?

John: Uh-huh. Nothing, let's put it that way, nothing.

Bradley: What about desire?

John: Oh, yes. Yes.

Bradley: Lots of desire but you can't.

John: Yes, but that's all, that's all.

Bradley: That would be a heck of a shape to be in for sure. After you left the department did you stay in Chicago or did you come out?

John: No, I left and went to Indiana and ah, I opened a tractor and trailer firm in Lansing, Illinois, and I stayed with it for approximately 8 years, ya about 8 years and then I left there to come into public relations and advertising.

Bradley: Where was that?

John: Ah Indiana, starting Indiana then I went to Virginia and then I went to Biloxi, Mississippi.

Bradley: What kind of work did you like?

John: It's all advertising with Policeman's newspaper.

Bradley: Oh, it's been police newspapers?

John: Ah, like F. Hope, he ah, which I belong to, ah, P.A.L., which I also belong to.

Bradley: P.A.L. is what?

John: Police Athletic LEague. Ah, Childrens Benevolent Assoc. Actually, it's a Nationwide thing.

Crim: You go around different spots around the country selling advertisements to different people, is this so they will support the publications and that type of thing?

John: Ya, ya, that is.

Bradley: Do you do any in California?

John: No, I haven't. Actually, I came up here with an idea of putting out a map for California and ah, it's just too difficult.

Bradley: You do a lot of traveling around then?

John: A great deal. A great deal.

Bradley: Do you do that in your car? That's not the car that you're driving is it?

John: No, that's Martin's. That's Martin's, I fly.

Bradley: Oh, you do huh?

John: Ya, I can't drive, I'm epileptic.

Bradley: Oh, are ya?

John: Marilyn and I both have the same thing.

Bradley: So you're not allowed to drive. How come you got a Calif., or you got a Nevada's license?

John: Yes, but you'll notice that there's a pull on there, there's a--you'll see on the front that the line of numbers on there stops. I have to have someone in the car that is capable.

Bradley: Hm, do we have anything like that in California?

Crim: I don't know either. I know there's restrictions on people.

John: Yes, indeed, yes indeed. You can drive but you have to have someone in the car that's able.

Crim: To take control?

John: Ya, in case you have a seizure.

Crim: Let me ask a question if you're into it? This national police reserve officer association.

John: Yes.

Crim: It's got the name of Bobby Lake as representative?

John: Yes, yes. I'm sorry, that is one of the gentlemen that worked for me. I was staff on that organization, Rob worked for me on that.

Crim: Ya, I was just wondering why you had his I.D. card or whatever.

John: Well, I took it back from him when he quit.

Crim: Do you, are you kind of advance man made supposed to contract with the various people or what?

John: Yes, I guess you could say that.

Crim: I don't know whether that's the correct terminology or not.

John: Ya, promotional, promotional, yes, yes.

Crim: Who you gonna work for in Med, Klamath Falls?

John: We're going into the F.O.P.

Crim: F.O.P. They're pretty wide spread all over, aren't they?

John: Mm, wonderful organization also. I'm also a member of that out of Shaker Heights, Ohio.

Crim: Shaker Heights?

John: Ya.

Bradley: That's in Cleveland, ain't it?

John: Ya, just outside of Cleveland.

Crim: We know about that.

John: You haven't missed too much, you haven't missed too much.

Bradley: What did you do over in Reno?

John: Ah, in Reno, I was in the veteran's hospital for my epilepsy and a brain scan.

Bradley: You have a heck of a time, don't you?

John: Oh boy, I have a bad seizure problem, very very bad seizure problem.

Bradley: You have that plus your gunshot wound.

John: I beg your pardon?

Bradley: That plus your gunshot wound you got some real problems.

John: Yes sir.

Crim: So you were in the service then?

John: Yes.

Crim: Harry and I were both Navy men, what were you in?

John: Air Core.

Crim: Air Core.

John: Is the only way, going into gun fire.

Crim: So you recall overhearing Justin make any kind of statements when he came home that day?

John: No, but ah, Marilyn and Marty and I were sitting in the front room, ah, following, that morning, that morning and ah, Justin was playing with his brother Casey and ah, he said, I'll kill you, I'll kill you, and this is how it was done, ya know.

Bradley: He was doing that to who?

John: His brother.

Crim: His younger brother?

John: Ya.

Bradley: You think he must have seen something, huh?

John: I would think so. Maybe, he shut it off.

Bradley: Pardon?

John: Maybe he shut it off.

Crim: Closed off the mind, oh ya, very possible. Ya, it seems like if he was that vivid about it, and this was how it was done.

John: Very vivid, very vivid, very vivid. They were wrestling on the floor and ah, he was holding his arm, and ah, my way not his, ah, I'll kill you and I'll show you how.

Bradley: Man, that's something.

Crim: Yah. Very interesting. You gotta think did he see something, and just the total shock to him that

John: Yah, and as much as I hate to admit it, I'm afraid he must have.

Bradley: Ya, probably so, you don't know.

Crim: But you know, as you well know, we're looking for anything that might help us.

John: Right, right, any kind of threat.

Bradley: You live here with your niece? About a month?

John: Niece and ya, approximately a month yes.

Crim: Anything else, John? Anything else that Justin may have said or done or?

John: No, not Justin, no.

Crim: Well, anybody as far as that's concerned. Anything that you can think about, or even anything else.

John: Alright. Martin, Marilyn and I were sitting at the table, there were two couples sitting directly in back of ours. There were four people sitting at the bar.

Crim: You're talking about the bar in here, downstairs, Keddie Back Door.

John: Yes sir. Right. Ah, because Marty had called my attention to ah, saying my goodness or you've been crowded more than this. Ah, that's the only thing I can think of, the only thing I can think of.

Crim: Those people were present.

John: Yes.

Crim: Saturday night, they were all in there.

John: Ya.

Bradley: But that isn't unusual however.

John: No, but ah, what I was thinking is I say and stuff, usually it's more crowded in there. Now, I asked Marty, ah, about the young lady and ah, well, I asked Marilyn actually and she said no, ah, she didn't play around or anything like this here.

Crim: You mean the victim, you're talking about the victim?

John: Yes, yes. Ah, she didn't play around.

Bradley: I can't think of anything else. We had high hopes on you?

John: Ya?

Bradley: Have you guys kicked it around over there at the house at all?

John: Oh ya, oh ya. Marty and I especially.

Bradley: Who?

John: Martin and I.

Bradley: Ya, I especially with Justin, I imagine he was

John: No, no, not to much with Justin. Justin is pretty high strung.

Bradley: I mean that would be kind of scary, have the kid in the house when that happened.

John: Frightened Marilyn to pieces.

Bradley: I would imagine.

John: Matter of fact, after she went to your office this morning she went to the doctor's office for a shot. Martin and I have talked and ah, when Marilyn first mentioned it, when we heard the news, she was under the impression that this boy Dana, one of the victims I imagine, I guess, ah, had done it because he was supposed to be a little short upstairs and then she found out he wasn't involved, she thought the husband, because the husband was supposed to be very very jealous an ah, that was the only thing that ah, that she was thinking and I myself, I've never met the lady and ah,

Bradley: Where, ah, we'd sure like to know which way to go on this thing. What have you done here in the last month, have you worked at all?

John: No, no. I get a check.

Bradley: Oh, on this retirement.

John: Yes.

Bradley: From Cook County?

John: Yes.

Bradley: When were you in Reno in the hospital?

John: Ah, well, two weeks prior to Tuesday.

Bradley: Two weeks prior.

John: Till Tuesday.

Bradley: And that's in the Vets hospital? Is that because of the epilepsy?

John: Yes.

Bradley: How long were you in there?

John: Also suicide attempt.

Bradley: Hm. Were you in the hospital long?

John: Ah, about two weeks actually.

Bradley: In other words, you were living here in Keddie, when you went down there?

John: No, no, I was in Reno.

Bradley: Oh, were you?

John: I was working in Reno.

Bradley: Were you working for an officer paper over there?

John: No, I was doing my own public thing.

Crim: You a gram too, also?

John: No, no, I farm it out.

Crim: You just do the layout and that kind of thing?

John: Ya.

Bradley: Just go and have contact with all the people in the advertise in the paper?

John: Ya.

Bradley: Is that pretty good business.

John: Depends. It can be, it can be.

Crim: You came over after you got out of the hospital.

John: Yes, well, see, I had known Marty and ah, prior to his marrying Marilyn. Ah, and I had Marty interested in putting out a map for Keddie and Quincy and East Quincy and ah, we went to the Chamber of Commerce and they set up to meet them on the 28th of this month to present our map and ah, or our presentation and then ah, this thing came up, and ah, in Klamath Falls and I said well, fine, we'll take that if you like and ah, Marilyn becoming so upset and Justin becoming so upset. He go, she don't mind, you go down and I'll be down Monday morning.

Crim: Is he going to fly up there from here?

John: No, bus.

Crim: Bus.

Bradley: What's the outfit up there?

John: In Central Peak.

Bradley: I mean the name of the place you're going to work up there in Klamath Falls?

John: The terminal of the?

Bradley: Oh, I was mixed up. In Klamath Falls, though, are they going to join you later up there?

John: Ah, Marty will. And in turn, he expected to return here around the 27th so he can meet the Chamber.

Crim: Oh, he's going to come back the 28th.

John: And then we're going to put the map out here.

Bradley: You think Marty will join you up there though?

John: Oh, definitely, oh, yes.

Bradley: You got a place to stay up there?

John: Oh ya.

Bradley: And where is that going to be?

John: Arcadia.

Bradley: Arcadia?

John: Arcadia.

Crim: Is that a motel?

John: Motel.

Crim: In Klamath Falls?

John: Yes.

Bradley: Just in case something up comes up and we want to give you a call. When do you think Marty will join you?

John: I expect him no later than Sunday night or early Monday morning.

Bradley: And Marilyn just going to stay here and keep the place, huh?

John: Yes.

Bradley: Well, doggone it, I don't know what else, can you think of anything that we haven't asked you that you think would shed a light on this thing?

John: No, not a thing.

Crim: Well, if you do, John, you know

John: I'll damn sure call you.

Crim: Call the sheriff's office.

Bradley: How much did you, do you think you had to drink that night?

John: That one drink.

Bradley: Is that it?

John: Uh huh.

Crim: On Saturday night, you only had one drink all night, huh?

John: Yes.

Crim: That was when you came back down.

John: I don't drink that much, ah,

Bradley: I mean before you went home, how much did you have to drink?

John: One.

Bradley: The first time you were in there you had one drink?

John: Ah, well, when I first came down, ah, we had cokes.

Bradley: Just plain cokes.

John: Ya.

Bradley: All three of you?

John: Ah, no, they drank. Marilyn had a beer, Marty drank beer, ah, and I drank a coke. And Marty and I went back I had one drink and Marty had a mixed drink.

Crim: You had the C C and coke?

John: Right.

Crim: And that's the only drink you had all night then?

John: Yes.

Bradley: What did Marty have when he came back?

John: I'm thinking a beer.

Bradley: Just one.

John: Yup, yup.

Bradley: And the earlier time it was just one beer?

John: No, no. No, the earlier time it was about, possibly 3 of them.

Bradley: Would you say anybody was drunk?

John: Oh, no, no, not at all, not at all.

Bradley: You had your faculties with you pretty good?

John: Oh yes, indeed.

Bradley: So if you were drunk, you may not have heard anything or you wouldn't have seen?

John: No, no, we were in complete control. If something had been wrong, we definitely would have noticed it, definitely. That's why I say, ah, if, I, I, just can't fathom this.

Crim: You didn't happen by chance and I know it's just a long shot in the dark, you didn't happen by chance to know what type of, what State license plate was on that Corvair? That attracted your attention.

John: No, no.

Crim: Well, I just thought I'd ask.

John: Um, wait a second, something crossed my mind. The California I noticed--

Crim: Well, ya, I've found myself doing that.

John: Ah, dark blue or possibly black, but I think dark blue, California license plates.

Bradley: Just trying to think, cause we may not get to talk to you.

John: Well I hope you don't have to but I'll put to goodness, I wish I could help you more, I really do.

Crim: Well, we appreciate that, cause we're digging for anything we can that may shed some kind of light. Terminate this interview approximately 11:10 am.

Crim: We're going to go back on tape here, Mr. Boubede, thinks he might remember something, approx. 11:12.

John: Marty had called and ah, and remarked to the bartender, the owner rather, who I believe his name was Bill that his wife Jan had went to the disc-jockey and said, don't play this rock and roll or don't play this hillbilly music anymore, play rock and roll and ah, did, ah, the two coupled that were sitting directly in back of us had left just a second or two before and then we had left and we went down and Marty had called and remarked to the fact that, that he didn't appreciate that ah, why in the heck, ya know, should a lady be able to control, the ah, the records? Ah, there was also an old Ford, 55, 56, 57, 58, in there somewhere, I can't recall what color, nor the license plate that was sitting a car or two down from the Corvair,

Crim: Mr. Boubede, and if you will, please continue where you were?

John: I'm under the impression that all of the cars that go to the bar are parked directly in the back of the bar, now these 5 or 6 cars that were sitting up in there, in the area of where the victim's house was at, and there was at least 5 or 6. Ah, 2 or 3 cars down from the Corvair, between a 55 or 58 Ford, I can't recall the coloring or the license plate

Bradley: Can't do it, huh?

John: No sir.

Crim: Well, we appreciate this. Again, terminate approx. 11:15 am.

Back on the tape.

John: And ah, certain sounds you'll hear, Something in the back of my mind that something had happened downstairs and I can't recall what it was. Gentleman that owns the bar, sandy hair, believe his name was Bill.

Crim: Ya, we're going to have to talk to a lot of people around.

Bradley: Ya, we'll talk to him, he might, you know, he knows who was there, most bartenders know the people in the bar.

John: Ya, ya, I wish I could be more help.

Bradley: Well, you have helped. And then you haven't. You've been cooperative but I mean as far as helping, wish you could have seen something, course the interview, you would have let us know by now, before now. Marty would have.

John: Well, Marilyn is completely destroyed and Justin's is destroyed.

Crim: We about done here?

[Ava]

What a joke this interview was.

If Bo retired in 1958 from the Cook County SD and he had served for 18 years, that
takes us back to 1940. If you had to be, at the least, 18 years old to join the force -
that means Bo was born in 1922. When was he in the military corp?

The murders occured in 1981, so according to Bo's math, Bo was 59 years old
on April 12, 1981.

I didn't realize, Bo was approx. 14 years older than Marty?

[not sure]

That's my understanding, Ava. Mrs Meeks told us many times Bo was older than Marty by at least 10 years.

[ache]

I'm fairly sure Bo was born in 1931.

[Ava]

I believe that Bo was born in 1931.
But, from 1958 Bo claims to have been retired through medical disability
after doing 18 years with Cook County SD. That math means Bo was
9 years old when he joined the force. And, 27 years old when he was
shot.
What were the DOJ officers thinking the whole time they were talking
to Bo and counting the Ben Franklins in 1981?

There are 2 sides to a drug deal:

1. The Drugs

2. The Money

[Ausgirl]

Bingo, Ava. Not only did these cops take English class with George W. Bush, they also failed hard at math.

The more I look at this interview, the more fish I smell.

We know Crim was an organised crime cop. I think he was on this case like white on rice and flubbed it because he was Bo's WPP minder. I look at this interview, and the truly -bizarre- way Crim and Bo speak to each other, and I think: they are talking between the lines, here. Looks to me like information is being passed on, in what appears to be a truly weird police interview.

The more I look into the various stinky fish surrounding these murders, the more I lean toward asking the question of whether somebody was being sent a very gruesome message. A clear warning. Its a real possibility that this crime was just such a warning, and I believe the same about the murdered daughter of the people who owned Keddie, also murdered at home just a few years before - was that a warning? Brutal crime. Woman stripped but not raped. Staged murder scene. Never solved.

The Mollaths. Printing company. Family members involved in Russian money laundering. What if the Russians weren't the only ones they'd been mopping up for?

[BUTTERFLYVALLEY1]

Button, Button, who's got the Button now? This is probably the worst interview I have ever read. It went nowhere and there were no pertinent information given or taken. Someone smelled fish...I smell COVER-UP, major major one. The only thing relevent is the fact that Marilyn and Justin were destroyed...dud!!!

I hope this whole thing gets solved. Evidence thy name is definently flase and misleading. Please, all, do not give up on this case.

[Ava]

Aus said:
We know Crim was an organised crime cop. I think he was on this case like white on rice and flubbed it because he was Bo's WPP minder. I look at this interview, and the truly -bizarre- way Crim and Bo speak to each other, and I think: they are talking between the lines, here. Looks to me like information is being passed on, in what appears to be a truly weird police interview.


Corvair built planes as well as cars. Ford did the same.

[Eastern]

Corvair built planes as well as cars. Ford did the same.

Hey, good point. There's been lots of speculation about planes possibly being used for nefarious reasons and why Dana really knocked out the lights on the runway. It's probably reaching, but was Bo passing info about a Corvair plane being used for drugs or something else?

[Ausgirl]

Bradley: You have a heck of a time, don't you?

John: Oh boy, I have a bad seizure problem, very very bad seizure problem.

Taken in that light, read the interview again. Maybe a reach. But it makes a heck of LOT MORE sense than anybody being interviewed/investigated THIS BADLY by a couple of seasoned Federal Agents.

[dmac]

My short analysis of this "interview", which is a complete sham.

First off, it's perfectly clear Crim and Bradley had notified Marty that they were going out to Keddie to "interview" Boubede- and that Marty warned Boubede. C & B imply they warned Marty at least the day prior. So:

Josh, when exactly was Marty's interview?
If Bo's was officially 10:27 am on the 14th, how much time did Marty and Bo have to discuss things?

Crim and Bradley also claim they'd never met Marty yet- not that rehearsal was needed- nothing in this interview does anything but ignore or bury the truth about Bo, even what C&B knew before they met with him in Keddie..

Everything Bo says about knowing the Sharps, the location of 28, all of that is BS based on his contradictions here. Hell, Bo just barely knows where his own cabin is, and only ever noticed the lodge because he went in the back door that night. In the whole month Bo was in Keddie- no, change that to 2 weeks (in fact, in this interview, Bo reduces it to less than 11 days) - creepy-crawling at night with his fineley-tuned senses, he never noticed a damned thing other than his cabin, the bar, and a dark Corvair. Even with all the cop cars and his knowledge of the murder, he had no clue where the Sharps or Seablots lived. With every related question, he lies so poorly that each answer digs a hole so deep that any legitimate member of LE would have bumped him to the top of the POI list. Instead of arresting him, DOJ's non-response indicate that Crim and Bradley were not there to serve justice. They were there to pervert it.

They discuss the music argument, where Marty is portrayed as the one that went ballistic, yet in none of these discussions (even when they flat out say, wow, he lives here so it's a good idea he went back and apologized) is it mentioned Marty supposedly worked for them as a cook, nor that Bill was not an owner. At the time, Doug and Jan Albin, and Jan's sister, Barbara, and her husband, Les Hogaboam, owned the lease on Keddie- so who is Bill? No mentions of a Bill, Will, or William on the timelines other than one who claims to have seen Dana and Johnny hitching. Is it the guy from cabin 6? That's the only Bill on the partial Keddie roster compiled by LE. When Bradley says "Mr. Martin", is he implying the name is Bill Martin?

Boubede claims Marilyn was awake upon their return from the second trip to the bar. Marilyn has changed her version of the story many times, but never said she was awake. Even her varying stories about waking to find them burning something in the wood stove imply she was already asleep. In the end, the sole common thread is that Marilyn always distances herself from a crime she knows a lot more about than she's ever directly let on. The stories, supposedly directly from the whore's mouth, have her saying goodbye to the murderers at 1:15 am, only to wake in the "middle of the night"- known to smarter folks as 45 minutes later, at 2am- to find Bo and Marty burning clothes in the wood stove. In reality, that's just when Marty and Bo had begun the quadruple homicide.They were early in the crime, still had people to tie up,take turns torturing, and repeatedly attacking so brutally that the three victims found in the cabin each had multiple mortal wounds. Plus they still had to deal with Tina, abducting, killing and hiding her somewhere so they could, with Dee's help, take her to Camp Eighteen hours later that day. And they still had to drop some evidence in the trash behind the Gen Store, rearrange bodies, clean up, and then get back home before the bodies were discovered.

Crim: You said yesterday you were a retired police officer.

So exactly how many times did LE chat with Bo before this sham of an official interview? They obviously chatted back at 26 where they met up with him, then on the way to the lodge, and for god-knows how long before turning the tape deck on at 10:27 am (keep in mind how they love to turn the recorder on- who still has doubts they intentionally turned off the recorder when 'interviewing' Rick?) They even indicate Boubede may have been driving when they met him. They clearly knew a shitload about him- many of his fake Fire Dept / Police Benevolant Society-type associations, including his fake Lake ID. He namedrops nearly three hundred bullshit affiliations during this interview, yet cleanly dodges naming current / recent affiliations in Reno and Klamath, and what do they do about it? Nothing but try to recall names of old pig buddies. In fact, they ask Bo directly about the name of the company he's working for in Klamath, and he plays one-word response games with them, confusing the topic with buses, Arcadia, Klamath, motels, everything but who his employer will be. That paragraph is like a bloodstained version of "Who's On First" where, in the end, DOJ apologizes to Bo for not answering a direct question.

Boubede indicates he quit being a pig after 18 years of service, in 1958, on medical leave for a line-of-duty gunshot wound. His hip/groin injury is a direct allusion to his hero, Uncle Alvin, who was shot "in the thigh" after his final hold-up, which he pulled with Bo. The biggest red flag here, which many of us have pointed out several times, is the age disparity. Actually, the biggest thing isn't just the lie, but how quickly it's ignored and forgotten, and how easily C&B knew Boubede was lying:

Boubede was 50/51 at the time of the interview. Crim was also 51, and Bradley was 52. Even though they come out of the closet as country music fans too stupid to understand the relationship between a niece and uncle (inbreeding is much easier without the ability to comprehend the social stigma), there is no disregarding the fact Bradley and Crim both knew exactly how young they were in 58 (28 and 29 respectively), and, being pigs themselves, they knew it was impossible for Boubede to have been a pig since age ten.

Crim: But you know, as you well know, we're looking for anything that might help us.
John: Right, right, any kind of threat.

What the HELL kind of a response is that?! Perceived threat to the three of them burying the case against Bo on a capital murder charge?

John: No, but ah, what I was thinking is I say and stuff, usually it's more crowded in there. Now, I asked Marty, ah, about the young lady and ah, well, I asked Marilyn actually and she said no, ah, she didn't play around or anything like this here.
Crim: You mean the victim, you're talking about the victim?
John: Yes, yes. Ah, she didn't play around.
Bradley: I can't think of anything else. We had high hopes on you?

What the hell is that? He admits to being impotent yet wanting to hook up with Sue, whom he clearly denied knowing anything about moments earlier and, again, a few statements later. The same Sue he asked Marilyn to hook him up with, the same Sue he corrected himself in the interview by stating it was MLoon instead of Marty that asked her to join them. He didn't even bring it up til the 'end' of the 'interview'. That statement alone fulfilled their "high hopes" yet again, but they were intent on ignoring every goddamned instance where Bo lied or incriminated himself. Better yet, they were ignoring their own lies.

A couple clarifications: Corvair never manufactured planes. Ford did, like the Trimotor, but Chevy never did. Many plane enthusiasts have modified Corvair engines to fit (usually experimental) planes, but Chevy had nothing whatsover to do with it. Also, I don't think Crim, Bradley, and Boubede were using a taped interview to pass encrypted messages. They were too stupid for encryption, in the first place. But they certainly were brazenly lying on tape without a worry in the world they'd be caught. A common, and true, statement about dirty cops (and criminal scum in general) is they simply can't resist the urge to lie. They are so stupid yet cocky, so certain they are above reproach, that lying is first nature and truth is second nature. Crim and Bradley were only seasoned at corruption, and when, in LE circles, there is no valid oversight (much less self-instigated investigations into the systemic, built-in corruption so widespread in all forms of government) and corruption is, instead, encouraged and demanded- why in hell would they be concerned about the piss-poor recorded interviews they conduct in the routine coverup of yet another silly homicide? They have no reason in the world to believe the tapes would ever see the light of day... And they haven't been. Not by LE.

There are 2 sides to a drug deal:

1. The Drugs
2. The Money

In the 80s, with Reagan's criminal regime in place, there were/still are many other elements. It is well known that Reagan illegally sold arms to Niceragua through Noriega. Noriega paid with coke, and the CIA brought in DOJ, and even local LE, to distribute. Not that it's new for CIA to do this- look at the Golden Triangle and the insane shit they did to import heroin into the States during the Viet Nam war. Look at Mariposa County and all the bullshit that went down there, leading up to the 1983 "Queen's Accident" where top cop Rod Sinclair murdered three secret agents driving twenty minutes ahead of Queen Elizabeth's motorcade in Yosemite. Here's an old 20/20 piece (back when they actually investigated hard news instead of paying tabloid paparazzi for celebrity gossip). This report is the tip of the iceberg, and you can look into any number of the people and stories outlined here. This story illuminates what the true reason behind the Keddie Coverup could be and, likely, really is: Distribution of drugs by Law Enforcement.



The interview with Sheriff Paige reminds me alot of the interview with Bee Fake- sitting on the porch, weaving bullshit into implausible, inane contradictions of proven facts. String 'em up.

[Ava]

Not the first time I've been wrong.

I had always thought that Corvair was actually an aviation engine, developed by Eastern Aircraft during a time that GM was trying to gain a government contract for light helicopters. Who knows what deals the government was doing then or now.

[SGRider]

There was, however, an airplane company named Convair. Maybe by saying "Corvair" the perp was actually referring to "Convair"....just thinking out loud. Remember the Lynyrd Skynyrd crash involved a Convair CV-240. This particular model was similar to the famous Douglas DC-3...and in 1981 could have possibly been used by drug runners.

[krazykat]

As I was driving down the Feather River canyon yesterday I remembered that there was a blue corvair or something very similar covered in berry vines between Beldon Town and Caribou Rd in the 90's before the big flood. It was at a really small cabin on the North side of the road that looked like it had been abandoned for years. Any one local to remember something like that?

[dmac]

Try reading this entire interview aloud, very slowly and deliberately, with plenty of erring and awwing and pregnant pauses. Imagine everyone speaking is GW Bush on moron pills. Read the whole thing aloud, and time yourself. It took me twenty minutes, yet this interview supposedly takes place over a period of 48 minutes, plus another segment recorded after they initially ended the interview. Something else: back then, before the home cassette boom, most tapes sold were c-60. C-90s didn't come into dominance for a few years, when it became the preferred length because you could usually fit one album of music on each side. In 81, c-120s were virtually unheard of because the polyester film base hadn't been perfected- the longer the cassette, the thinner the base must be to fit in the cassette. In fact, the base was never perfected, and c-120s never sold well because the thin tape was the major cause of c-120s being eaten by decks.

There's no mention of them stopping the tape and turning it over. They only mention turning off the tape at 11:15 am, after starting it prior to 10:27 am. They then continue the recording with no mention of when it was restarted or stopped. So, how did they fit over 48 minutes of mindless lies on one side of a cassette without flipping the tape over? They would have heard the tape automatically stop at the end of one side (presuming they began with a fresh tape) so they could flip it, but Crim and Bradley are obviously deaf to the noise that mechanism makes because they didn't hear it when they turned off the tape at the beginning of Rick's interview. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT BULLSHIT ABOUT IT BEING ACCIDENTAL.

How do you stretch 20 minutes of v-e-r-y s-l-o-w c-o-n-v-e-r-s-a-t-i-o-n out to over 48 minutes, yet manage to magically fit it on one side of what was likely a c-60, or maybe a c-90, cassette? One side of a c-60 holds, duh, just under 30 minutes of sound. A c-90 holds just under 45 minutes per side. Is this another outstanding function of the magical cassette recorder they used? Or is something else going on here?

Josh- was the transcript (read: script) of this interview supplied to you, or did you do the transcription yourself from the cassette? My guess is the script was supplied on paper, judging from the spelling errors (you are an english teacher, after all). How about the audio itself- did you ever listen to the complete audio? Did they supply the original cassette, or a copy?

Yet another illogical irregularity unexplained.

[CoffeeOD]

A few very basic things jump out at me regarding the Bo interview transcripts. For those interested, read what I write about interviewing and then look at the transcript and also look at the context again, possibly with new eyes. WARNING: This is long and maybe you'll find it worth reading, maybe you wont.

I spent 13 years of my life interviewing probably 10 people a day, candidates for jobs, not interviewing criminals. That being said there are some basic interviewing techniques that everyone who does that for a living would know and practice. It's common knowledge that more often than not people lie on their resumes and in interviews to either cover up potential red flags or tomake themselves appear more attractive to employers. I always assumed people were telling either little or big lies and it was my responsibility to uncover the absolute truth. There are ways you interview people to get them to establish or destroy their credibility. Which you choose to use for each person is something you just develop a knack for over years of doing it, since there is no rock solid rule for under what circumstances to use each one.

1. The "I'm an expert" technique. As an interviewer you can make it clear to the person being interviewed that you're an expert in the subject matter and it basically bullies them into giving you honest answers, since if someone thinks you're an expert they're MUCH less likely to try and BS you thinking that you'll catch their lies. The interviewer doesn't really need to know that much to pull it off successfully and it's a pretty damn good technique to use.

2. The "I don't know that much, you're the expert" technique. To pull this one off you actually do have to know your subject very well. By letting the person being interviewed believe you really don't know much about the subject you're getting them to drop their guard and this is where a liar will feel free to lie his/her ass off. When they do lie and to what degree they lie, you'll likely catch them and know to what they degree the the lies are. When I know the subject well this is the technique I tend to use because you are letting them person free comfortable to be who the really are...a liar or an honest person. This technique is used by many "Gotcha!" interviewers on TV and in investigative reporting....asking someone about irrefutable facts you know, but you lead the person to believe you're ignorant of.

3. The "open/close" technique. An example of a simple open ended question is "Can you tell me about your experience with X?" An example of a close ended question would be one that can be answered with a yes/no, a number or a list. At the start you ask open ended questions across all the topics you want to discuss and once you feel that the person has given a good amount of info on each topic, you drill down asking specific questions to get the fine detail you want. The reason this is a good technique is that you're giving the person being interviewed the opportunity to have diarrhea of the mouth and tell you much more about a subject than they would have ever volunteered if you ask them closed ended questions. This technique is used a lot by people interviewing celebrities and public figures...you've probably see interviewers doing this all the time on TV, like on Charlier Rose, Piers Morgan,etc...

Another thing to think about is how the FBI, CIA and other large government agencies teach people to interview. Robert Baer, who was a Case Officer, Station Chief and one of the foremost CIA experts on the middle east describe his techniques for verifying the credibility of sources and agents before he would trust them. You ask someone open ended questions to get them to talk freely like in technique 3 above, then you ask questions you already know the answer to or ones you can verify through other sources. Without the ability to cross reference, you are unable to know with any certainty whether the person is BSing you or not, however if you are able to verify independently that the person was truthful in answering several questions you can't be sure that the information they give you later is credible.

Now that I've set that up look at the interview.

- It doesn't appear that any particular technique was used at all.
- The interviewers almost exclusively used closed ended questions, which limit the info you can get.
- Even though there are a LOT of lies that Bo told that could be easily independently verified, it appears that they weren't checked.
- I don't remember for sure, but I don't think the CADOJ ever did a follow-up interview.
- If the CIA and FBI were teaching rock solid interview and credibility checking techniques in the 1970s, I would assume that a DOJ investigator within Organized Crime experience would know the same techiques with a large degree of certainty.
- Is is just a coincidence that the CADOJ person who interviewed Bo had experience investigating organized crime, while he had experience cooperating with the DOJ in the past regarding organized crime?

As I've stated previously, I'm very very skeptical of conspiracy theories because there's usually a much more simple and straight-forward answer that isn't nearly as "sexy", but makes much more logical sense. That being said I find it very hard to believe a DOJ investigator, who was surely professionally trained in interviewing criminals failed so badly in the interview, failed to verify the credibility, failed to follow-up, who also had experience investing organized crime, who happened to be interviewing someone with a background associating with mob criminals, who also cooperated with the DOJ in the past....and nothing came of it. It just doesn't pass the "smell test".

Can anyone really look at this now and dismiss this as coincidental and grossly incompetent? I know I can't.

My $.02

PS. Sorry I haven't been around in quite a while, but I've been swamped with stuff and haven't had time.

[raka1205]

I am bo s nephew and will be at live chat on sun 10/30/11 if i can get in

[vantravelor]

i am Bo's niece and would like to get in on the chat..not sure who the nephew raka 1205 is but as far as i know my uncle only has me and my 2 brothers left as family.

[meankitty]

Maybe you could ask your relatives if Raka is one of them.

[Princess]

Bradley: Were you working for an officer paper over there?

John: No, I was doing my own public thing.

Crim: You a gram too, also?

John: No, no, I farm it out.



What does this mean?