Timeline Map

all timelines of events, suspects, etc

Timeline Map

Postby dmac » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:53 pm

This map was built months ago and is also found at the top of the timeline page of the main site. It notes the locations of most places mentioned on the timelines, and gives details on many of them. You can zoom in and out on the map, switch from aerial view to map view, and drag the map to any location you want to look at. By default, the map is cropped tight on Keddie, but you can either click on any listed feature on the left, or zoom out and drag the map to whatever other features you want to see. Click on any feature or its icon and a popup window will appear with details.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204 ... 5,0.003782

We need to continue to flesh out this map with details of locations mentioned but not currently on the map, such as where the arcade was, the liquor store Philip was at, houses where Johnny and Dana were reported to be, locations of supposed parties, etc. As with other similar threads, if you find any errors or additions, please post them in this thread. If you read a document and it mentions a location not on the map, post it here.
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Re: The strange story of Phillip

Postby dmac » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:09 pm

quincygirl wrote:The Liquor store was on the corner of W Main and Railroad Ave.


I want to add all of these places to the interactive map. Was the liquor store actually on the corner of Railway and W Main and, if so, which corner? There's the big white barn structure on the NW corner- it looks like an old feed or lumber store (Feather Travel next door, to the west). There's the dive bar on the NE corner, but there's also a dirt lot indicative of a structure that was demolished and never rebuilt on the actual corner- it's used as a parking lot now. On the south side of the street is the white building that houses Sweet Lorraines on the ground floor. If you go east it's old homes, if you jog west there's the junction of Harbison St going south.

Any exact details on the liquor store would allow me to properly place it on the map. THX!

PS- if you go back and read the first post in the thread, it's all right there. And keep in mind that most of his details came from an interview/interrogation done full weeks after the murders. Read the first post and realize he said a few things that day, said more when he was incarcerated and bing spied on my PCSO, and said more when DT's minions had the bare bulb on him weeks later. He may well have learned every damned thing he said later after being popped for being at the liquor store on the 12th. NOTHING IS CLEAR AND SIMPLE.

Most of what Philip said, he could easily have learned elsewhere. What impresses me most about Philip's story is the timing. He says the crimes occurred around closing time at the Back Door, and that he approached "somebody closing the bar". That's about 2:15 to 2:30 am, depending on how long it took for the DJ to get packed, and for staff to clean up. The Bartender is typically the one who locks up- meaning he left after Jan, after whatever staff helped tend bar that night. I don't know if he counted receipts and had to balance the till, like 99% of businesses do at closing, but that takes a few minutes, too.

Either way, the guy that closed the bar left at 215 am to 245, maybe later. That's when the murders were happening, folks. That's where Philip's story is unshakable. HOW DID HE KNOW THAT? Was it pure chance that the timeline of his lie coincides with reality? Of all the facts few people want to discuss, the time of the killings is right at the top, but Philip accidentally nails it?
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Re: The strange story of Phillip

Postby quincygirl » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:14 am

The liquor store was on the left of west main going towards East Quincy. On the same block that Pangea is on now. It was right on the corner, there was a bakery right next door. The Plumas Club is the only thing left that was there in 81, oh and the theater. The drug store was there too, when I was a kid it had a soda fountain in it. As a matter of fact, if I recall correctly, Dennis Forcino ran the liquor store before he became a cop, maybe even owned it? Maybe I am talking out of my ass, my memory is not all that terrific. The bar across the road from the liquor store (I think it is still a bar) used to be called the Bank Club. Sweet Lorraines was not there, it was just apartments on that side of the road.
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Re: The strange story of Phillip

Postby dmac » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:04 am

Just to clarify, was the liquor store where I've indicated (red line)?

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Re: The strange story of Phillip

Postby quincygirl » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:29 am

Yes, right on the corner. Within that same building was the bakery, to the left.
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Re: The strange story of Phillip

Postby meankitty » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:14 am

There were 2 liquor stores in Quincy, and the one talked about here, Sierra Center liquors, was in East Quincy in a building on the corner of East main and Alta Ave. near Holiday market. The building it was in is no longer there, it's a gas station now.
Last edited by meankitty on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby dmac » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:50 am

OK, conflicting ideas of where Sierra Liquors was... Are you saying, MK, that Sierra Liquors was where the One Stop currently is (NE corner of Alta & E Main) or where the gas station is across the street, on the SE corner, at the edge of the Sav-Mor shopping center? This corner is less than a fifth of a mile from where the Meeks house was, so if this is the true location, it implies Phillip may have been to the Meeks house already and heard details (maybe from Loon, ffs)

Also, it's long been assumed that Sue's brother, Don Davis, did another ID of Sue at the Fehrman Funeral Home in Quincy. However, their own website says they didn't have a Quincy location until years later:

fehrmanmortuary.com wrote:Our family originally purchased the locations in Greenville, Chester and Westwood in 1978, followed by the addition of our Quincy location in 1991. In 1992 we established Fehrman Crematory located at our Quincy, CA facilities, the oldest licensed crematory in Northeastern , CA.

I'd always thought it was Fehrman's because their sign was shown in the documentary when Mr Doris was talking about having to ID Dana. However, page three of Stoy's doctored report states that Anderson Mortuary were called and responded. Was Anderson bought out by Fehrman in the 90s and, if so, is it at the same location? 378 Lawrence, which is the NE corner of Railway and Lawrence, one block north of the now-disputed liquor store location.

Where is this "mall" where "S" and "S" dropped off "S", supposedly talking to Dana (alone) at the "Mall" when Dana was with Johnny either hitching from Keddie or over at Baze's house? The only places in Quincy with enough clustered businesses to be considered Mall-like are the Save-Mor center in East Quincy, or the bigger Safeway center- although I have no clue how big / busy with other businesses either locations were in 81.

Let's keep nailing this map, filling in places. If you find a place mentioned but it's not on the map, tell us about it or ask about it here. I've added half a dozen locations in the last week, and there are dozens more that need to be added.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby quincygirl » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:16 am

MK might be right about the liquor store, but the liquor store on the corner of railroad and main was typically called "The Liquor Store". I don't remember the liquor store in East Quincy. The building that Save More is in used to be a bowling alley and there was a grocery store there, on the opposite end of where Save More is now. At one point it was Boyd's Market but I can't remember if the name changed or it was gone by 81. The part of the building that was the Market is completely gone now.

Anderson's Mortuary is where they were taken, Andy Anderson owned and operated it. It was on Lawrence Street my whole life.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby dmac » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:45 am

That's all good details. QG. I know the Sharps used to go bowling, and the current alley is a few yards west, between Redberg and Mill Creek. I doubt like hell Quincy ever had 2 bowling alleys. In fact, on a side note, I have a photo of Johnny bowling shortly before the murders, wearing what appears to be the same exact (track suit) jacket he was found wearing on April 12. Given Dana was only wearing the red sweater, and not a striped jacket as described by one witness in the timeline, was Dana simply wearing Johnny's jacket at that moment (it's been said they swapped some clothing during the day together), or is Dana's jacket unaccounted for?

[witness] remembers that Dana had on his blue windbreaker jacket with red and white stripes on the sleeves.

Is that jacket found on the floor of the living room Dana's jacket? It has stripes, and one color print shows it is blue... if that's Dana's jacket on the floor, it adds another level to understanding how things went down-

Any thoughts on what would pass as a mall in 1981?

Also, Stoy reports Anderson reported to handle the bodies, but Forcino's "supplementary" report from the 17th only states that he took the bodies from the crime scene to Sac. Forcino makes no mention of Anderson staff or taking the bodies anywhere but Sac in that document.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby quincygirl » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:16 am

I know Gary went to identify Dana's body early in the day (I am avoiding saying morning because I can't be positive, but I'm pretty sure it was morning) at Anderson's mortuary. He didn't actually end up doing it, but he was there. I suppose they could have taken the bodies there until they could be identified and then immediately transported them to Sacramento, why they would not say that in the reports is just one more unknown.

I thought the two bowling alley's did not co-exist, I thought the one that is there presently, was there only after the other one closed. The one that was in the Holiday Market complex had a bar in it also and they had live bands on weekends. Either way, they are both within easy walking distance to the Meeks house.

As far as a "Mall", I would say the stores across from the High School, where Safeway is at is the closest you could get to a mall.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby dmac » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:31 pm

Jan who owned Keddie at that time, who lived next door to the murderers, two doors from the murder cabin.

Bo and Marty mention this huge fight, sometimes with Jan, yet why is there no recollection from Jan or anybody else who lived in cabin 25? They collectively owned Keddie at the time and supposedly worked in the lodge that night, yet we have not learned how unusually dark the lane was when Jan or anyone else living in 25 walked past 28 that night.

This is so ridiculous. oh, right, they ran to Jan's cabin to call the cops. And Sue's brother chilled there all day because why? Why was he waiting around to ID bodies for a third time? Why was he hanging around after IDing them the first time?

The "official" PCSO timeline is mysterious enough for a lot of the wothless crap included on it, but it's just as suspicious due to all the things that should be on it but aren't. Come on, the Albins, Hogaboams, and Gary Mollath owned Keddie, and the Albins/Hogas figure very heavily in the Loonibi and the whole story: the lived in the cabin between 28 and where the killers lived in 26, Jan had evidently recently fired Marty, Marty was in a fight with Jan right before he invaded cabin 28, etc etc. Yet count how many times Jan or any of these folks are mentioned on the timeline: once???

That is all you need to see to understand the low quality of this PCSO/DOJ "investigation."
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby Kyburz » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:32 am

I blundered upon a ‘historical’ website about Feather Falls (Village), California:

http://djkuba.tripod.com/index-29.html


Copy and paste the following values into ‘Google Maps’ to arrive at Feather Falls (Contemporary? Razed late 90’s site):

39.593081,-121.258603

Distance to Camp Eighteen (8.25 miles). I notice several articles are vague as to the distance Camp Eighteen is from Feather Falls, and the location of Feather Falls appears somewhat nebulous also. In the website above, there are four images posted of Feather Falls from January of 1982 (two thirds down the page, with the Chevrolet Vega), in front of what’s left of the market area on Lumpkin Road. I noticed a couple things from those Kodachrome photos. In January, the road is passable for a vehicle as spectacular as a Vega, which makes the Keddie to Oroville (Highway 70) to Camp Eighteen (Highway 162 / Forbestown / Lumpkin / Mill) route plausible, as passable in April.

Secondly, those photos were likely taken 8.25 miles (10 minutes drive) from where Tina’s body was awaiting discovery. Surreal to know those folks were so near, yet so blissfully unaware (10-11 months after the murders).


The next website allows one to view historical aerial photographs and old topographical maps from the USGS. Just type in an address or town name in the dialog box in the upper left corner like ‘Feather Falls, CA’ and hit ‘SEARCH’.

http://www.historicaerials.com/


The legend of the left with a ‘T’ prefix is for topographical maps with the year it was published. You can see by comparing T1973 to T1998, the village of Feather Falls went into a steep decline and has all but vanished. There’s a crappy zoom bar on the lower right of the map image, where moving the bar closer to Earth- will zoom out. The same evaporation of building footprints are displayed for Camp Eighteen, CA as well. I thought this may be of some help in establishing some chronological orientation regarding what the areas of interest looked like in 1980.

The work done on this Keddie map thus far is phenomenal. What a great visual/historical aid.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby ache » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:16 am

Mention of the Long family is contained in your first link, that was the name of the family who operated the mill at Camp 18 during the '40's or '50's.
Another name connected with the Feather Falls area is McKim, there have been McKims in FF since at least as far back as the early 40's but I'm not certain whether, or how closely our Steve McKim is related to them. They moved to Butte County from Iowa and Steve was also from Iowa, so there may be a connection there.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby dmac » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:54 pm

If you go to the main map link, it's zoomed into Keddie by default. If you zoom out, you can see other locations- including a pinpoint on the approximate location of Tina's skull. Comparing the old GS maps, it was still hundreds of feet north of the buildings that once lined the street.

Here's a link directly to an approx location of Tina's skull:
http://goo.gl/maps/kkIaV

Where Tina's skull was found is a ravine- here's a terrain view: (choose 'terrain' from dropdown on the right)
http://goo.gl/maps/TSWiR

I doubt the USGS map of C18 from 1978 is very accurate- by then, the town had already closed up and died. Currently, where the mill buildings were (the three largest dots, at the bottom right) is just a wide spot in the road, actually where we parked on our visit. Where the RR went to the north of the mill was a good grade up. There is no evidence any buildings- or the railroad- ever existed, from what we saw. You can see where the mill RR was is now still a clearly visible logging road.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby Salem » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:43 pm

I believe the 2 bowling alleys did co-exist for a short period of time. Maybe a year or so. The popular bowling alley was the one with the bar and in 1981 it was hopping most weekend nights.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby Salem » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:52 pm

The "Mall" generally meant the Safeway center. There was (might still be) a Round Table there and lots of the kids hung out there. There were some other stores - the Coast to Coast; RiteAid and Perkos Coffee Shop. But the kids generally went to the Round Table.
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Re: Timeline Map

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:29 am

Thanks, Salem. You know how I like to map things out first. I put every known 1981 business on this map. And the map shows a lot of weird stuff in Plumas jurisfiction. The arcade the kids played at was in EQ, across the street from where the Meeks moved months prior to the murders.

The Meeks and Sharps were geographically close at one point. The Sharps lived in the trailer park by the airport, and the Meeks lived in a place next to the old Safeway, where the post office moved to. And the pizza joint moved there long after 1981. Look at the 1981 map cuz that's where they were when the crimes happened, as far as I can figure it.

In 81, English, who owned Keddie before selling it to the Mollath's front company, English Properties, had a pizza joint in EQ. Anyone recall the pizza joint in EQ from back then?
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