How Did Those Little Sharpe Boys Not See Anything?

[Cheerwine]

So, Bo-Mart killed Sue, Johnny and Dana, and left 28 to go back to 26 to change clothes, then returned to the scene later, one wearing the denim shirt? That would mean that those boys were left alone in the cabin with the dead bodies (for some amount of time)?

Surely, ALL the boys were awakened by the killings; the killers were stabbing the damn walls! I wonder if, at the least, Justin quietly shut the door, and pushed that small cabinet up against the door after he peeked and saw Sue being tortured, and tried to keep Greg and Rick quiet (and did not let them see anything).

Justin saw his step-dad there doing this to Sue (with Bo), and knew better than to intervene in any way, since he must have been terrified of both of those psychotic pricks. I think Justin was seen by Bo-Mart, and Mart told him to "go back to bed or else!"

Justin probably told the two little Sharpe boys that Dana and Johnny had just had a BIG fight, and it was over, and to go back to sleep, and they did, once Justin pushed the cabinet against the door to make them feel safe from the fighting teens.

Justin said he saw Tina carrying her little blanket and asked, "What's happening?" When Tina came out, Marty knew that he now had to kill her too, since he had no control over her (he knew she would tell on them if she was left alive). I think that Marty was surprised that Tina was even there. So, while the little Sharpe boys were being placated by Justin behind the bedroom door, Bo-Mart killed little Tina, wrapped her up, and took her with them when they left to go change clothes; this is when they stashed her little dead body in an out building.

It's one thing to kill teenagers and an adult, but thinking, if they got caught, they would also be accused of killing the little girl; better to take her away. They knew that while looking for this missing little girl, LE would not concentrate so hard on the other murders, at least for a while (giving them time to dispose of her the next day). They did not want to get caught, but they knew they HAD to kill Tina or they would get caught. Marty could control Justin, but not Tina.

Also, you could go to prison for killing a couple of teens and a whore (this is how they would describe her in prison), but killing that little girl would make them major marks in prison...parihas!

So, after the little Sharpe boys were back in bed, and the killers gone, Justin went out and looked around, maybe placing the sheet over Sue. He would NOT have stepped in the blood; would have avoided it all costs...nasty. I bet he went to pee though!! He saw what the killers left, and he went back in the boy's bedroom and climbed into bed, finally maybe even falling back to sleep, until the knock came at the window. I think when the killers came back to do the overkill (after having time to discuss everything and change clothes), even if Justin did wake up, I bet he stayed in that bed this time!

[dmac]

Only a couple things to add.

Marty and Bo were not the only ones in the cabin that night. Marilyn was not only a catalyst in the murders, but a full participant. The killers went in to the unlocked cabin, fully armed and with mayhem in minds. If, as I believe, Dana & Johnny were already in the basement and first responders to the screams heard shortly after 1AM, then all victims chosen for murder were already not only restrained with tape, but beaten, unconscious, and/or dead by the time M&B left Loon (if not others) behind to maintain the crime scene while they went home, changed out of their bloody clothes, and ran back to the bar to reestablish whatever partial alibi they thought they had from their presence at the Back Door.

It was a full 15-30 minutes after they entered 28 that two of the killers returned to the Back Door. Sue was their target and, as Marty said, the others were collateral damage. That's a huge window of time for at least three heavily-armed adults to dispatch two unarmed, teenage boys and a helpless 12 year old girl, while leaving their target gagged and guarded, waiting for their return.

We know Justin was a witness, if not participant. We also know Greg told Crim he was awakened during the night. Only Rick seems to have publicly maintained his lie of staying asleep that night. Also, the chest you mention was in the closet and was only pulled out days later by LE when they were looking closely at the closet. I believe the boys, for a time, were huddled together inside.

[Cheerwine]

Dmac, it's probably on this forum somewhere, but why do you think that these killers wanted to torture and kill Sue so badly?
I have read a lot of info on this forum, and I just want to know why you think these three adults (and Justin) wanted to torture and kill her. You have probably put your thoughts on here about this, and I may have read it, but I have been consuming so much lately, that I now don't know why you think this happened. Don't get me wrong, I believe you understand this better than anyone at this point, but I just would like to read your idea of WHY overall did they do this. Thanks so much ahead of time, and please pardon me if I have missed it somehow!!

[dmac]

I haven't visited it in a while, but the thread named something like "Understanding Motives for Murder" is a good starter for where I was on the topic a couple years back. I think it's found on the 'newbies' section, but it's made p of the same stuff I've expanded on or taken to different tangents elsewhere on the forum.

Basically you've got at least three storming the cabin (MMB), with something so basackwards that they end up having to kill three others for collateral. Each had their own motives. Bo didn't know Sue, but with his bg it was what happens in a 'fun night out'. Loon wanted out of a marriage, and it appears she was using Sue to lessen the blame on herself. She's clearly a sick puppy who put her own son into this, so you think she gave a damn for life in general- much less Sue or the others? And Marty, he's just a piece of work. He was nuts going in, plus he blamed Sue for supposedly putting her nose in where it didn't belong (as Loon prolly led him by the nose to believe). I also think there's possible merit in longstanding stories of Bo having a sexual fixation on Sue. Bo, hell, he probably wanted a piece of that ass that was commonly believed to sleep around (and, yes, she did).

Another main thing, which I've believed since we realized Bo wasn't following Marty around like a puppy- as was openly stated. No, it was MARTY that hated his mom and dad, wanted a father figure, and in comes a scumbag like Bo with all his connections and tales. Despite the fact Bo's sleeping on Marty's couch, Marde looks up to Bo as a new hero. Once they got too far into the Game of 28 (which had gone sideways by the time Marty was telling people someone would die if 'shit didn't get straightened out'), no way Marty was gonna back down. They went in with MANY weapons (including multiple rolls of tape), and blood was spilt almeost instantaneously- in the girls' br.

They went in w/ mayhem in mind. None of them had the brains NOT to step through that unlocked door, so deescalating was never an option.

BTW, it wasn't worth posting on the other thread you started, but rethink 'Sue the Great Mom' myth. Despite protestations from family and friends, documents, facts, empirical evidence, show she was self-indulgent, distant- to her own kids, slept around, even left Tina alone after the 1980 molestation, where Tina was found yards away from the perp's trailer days later... BY PCSO. I know 'sleeping around' is a BS double-standard, and was then. So is racism. But it's reality. So is true that, In the days leading up to the murders, Sue spent many of those nights- some into the wee hours- with or at Dareyl's trailer. Look up that name.

None of this is a death warrant, Sue didn't have ANY of this coming. But she was high-at-risk, and put her kids there with her.

The killers are the sole fuckups to be blamed for this mass-murder. I have no answers for 'A MOTIVE' behind the complicated, individual, sociopathic reasonings of multiple assholes/killers. Perhaps if John Douglas at Quantico hadn't been fed lies by PCSO/CA-DOJ, one of his first profiles, 'on-the-job' in the new PROFILING wing of the FBI, wouldn't have been so sadly off-base. I'd love for JD to today look ONLY at the REAL evidence on-hand at the time, not the lies spoon-fed to Quantico when he made his profile, and see what he'd deduce.

I'm no behavioral scientist, which is why I've tried, for years, to prove HOW rather than WHY. NEITHER are my field of mediocrity, or expertise.

[duffyman]

OK, here's my opinion on that....

First of all each one of the three of them THOUGHT they were in charge.

Marty thought he was showing Bo that he was as big a deal as he thought Bo was.

Bo thought he was showing that he was still relevant in life. You know, virile and all that.

But Marilyn was the one with the power to pull all the strings. She could play Marty, or play Marty and Bo one off the other. She had the power to de-escalate the night by inviting Marty back to bed. Hell, she could have yelled out on the trip back from the Backdoor Bar, "Oh my God somebody stop them, they are going to kill her", but she didn't. Whatever she did to that night, she didn't do that.

So for those reasons, Marilyn was the one in charge that night IMO.

[azucena]

I believe Marilyn was in charge from the standpoint that she was manipulating Marde and Bo. I think Bo was "in charge" of the staging. I do however, wonder if there were others who had reasons for the murders apart from these three people and their petty sociopathic dramas that was ultimately in charge and used all of them...

[dmac]

A lot of suspicion, and I'd like to read your elucidation, Azu.

Common spec points to the ever-elusive Mollaths. Even, 'was Bo involved with Lyn's death'. I see conjoined threads in that, but see a complete cut between the BM Dream Team and the Mollaths. There's the triad of "Marty to Bo" thru carny, "Bo to mafia", and "mafia to whomever hit Lyn". And that's IF it was a hit. I've found no connective tissue between Mollath and Marty, which is the only way I can draw that circle. Marty had only been in Keddie since 7/80, which is well after Albins/Hogaboams took over. The only commonality in between the distant circles linking Bo to Keddie/Mollath is DRUGS. And NOBODY in my dreams would know Bo was connected tangentially to Marty (via carny) that also would have a grudge against Mollath, or any other suggested target outside of 28.

The key here is timing. Marty was only in Keddie for 9/10 months. Bo for ten days, just enough time for whatever Bo thought was going to happen in 28 to turn into a quad. Marde's circle of druggie friends and/or dealers? Dee? no idea; Wade? Yonks!; Tony Garedakis? a year or two, max. The MV connex? The bros, since birth. Pat and Joe? Years for Pat, no clue for Joe but prolly over a year or two in order to become so well established. (Then again, if you're a drug pusher wearing the Pope's cloak, it takes NO TIME to become a Big Wheel in Plumas, and buy the diner/motel).

DT? Off and on, since 76/77 (my memory is taking a hit from the muscle relaxant). PCSO had been doing this since before DT arrived, but when did the drug angle become s explicit? Was this like the 'Godfather', and Abernethy removed because he took an old-fashioned view of drug pushing by his team of crooks? Hey, DeCrona showed up as a Heavy Hitter. Again, he HAD to have been PLACED in Plumas. Was he 'placed' in the Dorris home as well?

If anyone's familiar, Manson chose Cielo Drive because he was killing two birds with one stone. One of the birds was Terry Melcher, the 'welsher' on what Charlie believed was a don HWood deal on a movie and recording contract. Melcher and Candy Bergen lived at 10005 just before Tate/Polanski moved in, and Charlie even visited the place in the weeks prior, under false pretenses, to case the place.

Doug Thomas lived in 28 just prior to Sue and the kids. But, if this was a message hit, why would MMB be the messengers? If there was animosity between MMB and DT, I sure as shit haven't seen any clue of it. But, to paraphrase the involved liar, Mike Davis, "(Drugs and money) makes you do weird shit."

[duffyman]

I suspect the whole reason for the 28-Lyn conjecture is that LE were at least "consultants" in the staging. If you take one murder and stage it to look like prior murders in the area, for which you have an alibi, then you can take suspicion off yourself and put it on whatever mystery person conducted those prior murders.

Who in this instance had intimate knowledge of those prior murder scenes, including Lyn's - LE.

[dmac]

minus ten points to you, Duff Beer. Documents show PCSO were consulting LE involved in Lyn's murder weeks after 28. I don't recall how it started- who knew what about both to instigate said research. It all points to Mollath, though. Gary. 100 points for that obvious fact. His nae hasn't come up in weeks.

Naw, as I've stated before, the intel Princess and I developed on Bo led to current PCSO seeing this as a scam. I'm proud of Sheriff Hagwood and Det. Gamberg for shifting the LE mockery of this site to the actual work we've done. They changed tactics by vetting our research, and found there is a coverup, that Marty and Bo and 'others' did it. I believe their research int surviving documents prove not only that DT's top staff knew it, but DT and Crim conspired to fuck the case.

Mike found conflicting official US documents, which has Bo in two places at once. Impossible, but not for Boubede. That led to his and my spec that Bo may have been involved in Lyn's slaying. Similar elements involved: knife, execution, staging. But, when I visited Q for the tv stuff, Mike showed me the crime scene images. and I can't see a connection. Lyn's murder seems more organized, and how / where she was placed (staged) is what leads me to believe it might be a real hit.

I don't have any cause to believe 28 was either random or a hit. It was only a hit to those directly involved, unless someone on the McKnight Defense League protests too much.

Spec has always been around that Lyn / Mollath / 28 are related events. I disagree, but I need one straw to prove myself wrong (yet again). I see far more justification in covering up 28 because of Kathy. Unmask the fraud of Steve and Baird and this whole fucking thing explodes.

Bottom line is you're wrong. The spec abt a relationship between 28 and Lyn has been around since 81. That records Princess found conflict with other 'official' US docs only says Bo was, maybe, near the Lyn murder at the right fucking time. That alone is a headspinner, when we didn't even know the scumfuck's name six years back. I need a more tangible series of events or links, which are not currently present to confirm a moderate suspicion Bo did Lyn. Thus far it's poorly-supported hearsay I helped along and now leave.

[leenie963]

I've been reading posts from long ago (2010) and meankitty posted something interesting concerning Justin and his Love Boat dream. She took away all references to love boat and it focused on Justin describing in detail the killers hair, glasses, clothing, shoes/boots down the a squiggly insignia, weapons-wooden handled hammer, something like a pocket knife; Johnny fighting for his Mom, Dana trying to help then running towards the kitchen only to be smashed in the head and acting "drunk". Justin goes on to describe more about Sue's chest wound, his need to help her...Tina coming out to inquire what is happening. Sometimes it takes something like what meankitty did to make things click you right upside the head.

How in holy fuck can he describe all this and more and NOT know who the killers are? I mean, c'mon. He knew them and he is still protecting them to this day. Did he participate in the murders? I'm not even close to the fence on that one, hesitation wounds and such...the thought horrific. Yes, Justin was young and experienced traumatic events. But for him as an adult to cover for his bitch of a mother is enough to make me wretch.

aaaand back to reading... sorry about my soapbox.

[dmac]

Justin is full of shit. He's protecting his momma. I'll open those floodgates soon, and Justin's nice little fake life will be washed away.

[Cheerwine]

I've been reading the "lost" posts from way back tonight. It was interesting to wonder how often the killers may have actually posted on that old forum (at least the ones still alive during that time). Still catching up on new stuff that you have been working on Dmac. Thanks so much!!

[dmac]

Look at the Old Forums ( including this) as a map of liars. Few are telling the truth, fewer still have memories of April 12 81 unless they were involved.

Many lie because the internet is filled with sick, worthless fucks.

Many lie because they are intentionally obscuring the truth.

Those are worthy guidelines I'd never heard of when I jumped into the 28 case. How could I? I barely wrote them two minutes ago, but they're a better guideline than I ever saw.