Crime Scene Evidence- JUST THE FACTS, MA'AM- (Restored)

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Crime Scene Evidence- JUST THE FACTS, MA'AM- (Restored)

Postby Ausgirl » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:20 am

dmac wrote:This was originally posted on Josh's old forum and accidentally deleted when dmac was cleaning up the database for this site. I, dmac, culled it from an old database, and this is it, letter for letter. I believe I deleted it because much of the info was outdated and disproved, so enter with caution. I give control of this thread over to original author, Ausgirl, and she can edit/update at her will.


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Postby Ausgirl » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:20 am


A bunch of us in chat were saying that we need a list of actual evidence, all in one place both to just have it tidy and also to help new people find it all (I know I get tired just trying to remember stuff).

So we started a "just the facts" conversation, pulling up KNOWN information about the crime scene (i.e., documented, photographed by LE, reputably verified, visible in photos, etc) and asking questions about it for further information.

Anything we could not verify was placed in a list titled "Very Good Questions" for further exploration/verification.

Updated info from the basic post will be bolded.

Thanks to that, and a lot to Josh verifying information with LE documents, we have the beginning of what we hope will end up being a comprehensive list.


NOTE:

- This is NOT a thread for information or speculation on perp identity or any activity/artefacts outside the crime scene.

- We're doing our best with what we have.

Thus, occasionally details will change as we explore the information further. Occasionally, we will need to completely reconsider a fact. Apologies for that.

Please feel free to add anything we have missed (and keep in mind, we have not finished the list at all but will be adding to it as we get the chance to examine stuff, so if something isn't mentioned at all, we probably just haven't got to that yet).

If you can offer a correction or an addition to the list, please paste a link to the "proof" that it comes from a verifiable source, ie, a photo, Josh's conformation via LE docs, documented LE reports, etc. No guesses, what ifs, theories, hearsay.

Also, please add "Very Good Questions" (i.e., questions that maybe have a hope of being answered) if you have any --concerning the crime scene evidence only. Hopefully we can slowly moved these up to "facts" as answers come in.


____________



(exact details of wounds and postions are not yet included here)

JOHN


AUTOPSY REPORT:

John's AUTOPSY REPORT:









SUE

- was stabbed, gagged and heavily bound
- no sign of sexual penetration
- tied with a black plug-in type electrical cord
- was gagged with 2 gags:
- 1st blue bandana tied tightly, then some tape in strips over that
- 2nd gag is a pair of panties (how these are tied, and in what condition is yet to be determined)
- gagged so tightly her upper teeth are visible over the thick gag
- garment pushed up to reveal her body, looks like a deliberate act
- was wearing a partially bloodstained bra
- her wrists & ankles were tied with 2 different cords
- the cord covered the tape, indicating tape was used first
- had defensive wounds on arms
- Sue sustained several broken teeth, indicating blunt force trauma
- was wholly covered by a blanket and a sheet
- Sue had bare feet, bloodied
- was on the floor, facing the couch - i.e., away from the door

DANA

- was hammered, manually strangled (strangulation noted as cause of death)
- was bound at lower legs with white electrical extension cord
- had tape on top of left hiking boot
- had tape on right hand
- according to the coroner, Dana had lividity on the back of his legs showing he was not in a front-down position for an unknown time after death, but more than half an hour
- Dana's body was front-down, on discovery.
- was almost definitely moved post-mortem
- Dana's head was on a sofa cushion, on the bottom right hand corner

____________





CORDS & BINDINGS

- Sue was bound with two separate cords, one currently verified as a black electrical cord
- John and Dana were bound together at the lower legs with a white electrical extension cord, with a couple of feet of cord between them
- the phone cord was cut, not torn from wall
- the phone cords came from the girl's room (to be verified)
- there are several cords in the living room area close to the bodies that were not used as bindings.

Entered Into Evidence:

- cut piece of wire on floor in living room near V # 2's feet (Dana)
- cut wire end on floor between beds in west bedroom, plug on end
- cut wire end on floor between beds in west bedroom, lamp on end of wire
- cut wire found in west bedroom between beds behind box under table
- tape on living room floor near v # 3 (Sue)

FINGERPRINTS

Entered Into Evidence

- ashtray on floor in kitchen between stove and sink, fingerprint
- saw found on back porch floor, print lifted
- east wall living room by front door, bloody fingerprints on it
- fingerprint taken from metal center at phone booth outside resort

HAIR & FIBRES

Entered Into Evidence

- short hair (cut) on living room floor in front of couch
- short piece of hair on floor near feet of v # 3 (Sue)
- hair in blood splatter on north wall in living room
- 2 strands of fibre found on a fence south of cabin 28


FURNISHINGS/OBJECTS DISPLACED

- TV on a wheeled trolley was moved askew from its position on the wood panelled floor area (movement of TV flush to wall noted previously was due to LE)
- card table tipped, one corner resting on the edge of the TV trolley
- cassette recorder was on the floor, its cord under Dana
- sofa cushion was placed on the floor forward and a little to the right of its usual place on the sofa
(note: at this point we observe very little displacement of furnishings)
- sheets and blanket
- articles of clothing and shoes on floor



- cushion was removed from couch, placed directly forward and a little right/clockwise
- very bloody where knees of a seated person would touch/front edge
- top left 1/4 of the cushion was covered in blood
- a lot of blood under the cushion, indicating that the cushion was placed on top of blood later


WEAPONS

- all the following weapons were items owned by the Sharp family

- hammer with blood on it found on wooden table in living room
- butcher knife on wooden table in living room next to hammer, blood on it
- bent steak knife (found on floor, to Johnny's right, observing from doorway).
- butcher knife was on the left, hammer on the right


also Entered into Evidence:

- 9" x 15 1/2" wall board taken from north wall near front door (4 knife marks)
- 1 1/2" x 1" wall board taken from north wall near front door (1 knife mark)
- 2 1/2" x 4" wall board taken from north wall near front door (1 knife mark)
- 2 1/2" x 3" wall board taken from north wall near front door (1 knife mark)


BLOOD

- small bloody footprints found in lounge
- Sue had blood on her feet
- patches of blood on the floor either side of John
- patch of blood between Sue's knees and abdomen, not wound seepage directly from Sue
- blood on back porch post
- blood on car door handle of Sue's car
- blood on bottom of Justin's shoes
- blood smear on door (to be verified as boy's door)
- fingerprint on a glass with blood on it (print matched to Martin Smartt)


Entered Into Evidence:

- blood splatter on north wall in living room (note: hair in blood)
- inside door knob on rear door in kitchen, blood on it
- notebook page with blood on it on TV tray
- stool in living room with blood splatters
- blue shirt on table in living room, blood on shirt
- green curtain on south window in living room, blood on it
- blood on edge of door in west bedroom
- drop of blood on floor in west bedroom between foot of small bed and wall
- drops of blood on cardboard on large bed in west bedroom
- bloodstain on sheet in small bed in west bedroom
- doorknob off outside door in west bedroom, blood on it
- blood on edge of door in east bedroom
- possible blood smear on wall in east bedroom by door
- doorknob on outside front door, blood on it.
- bathroom cabinet door, possible blood on it




OTHER ITEMS

- gym shirt with 'Trojans' printed on it, next to folding table
- small black semi-circular piece of (plastic?) observed under shoe
- bracket holding rear adjuster sight ramp from gun on living room floor near Sue
- pellet on living room floor between Johnny & Dana's heads
- two packs of cigarettes - B&H on tray by couch (likely Sue's), Camels on couch where cushion on the floor would have been.
- ashtray resting on right arm of sofa (R if seated on it, L if looking at it)
- ashtray in girl's room with one B&H butt in
- phone off hook, cord cut, handset laying next to base of phone

(outside)

- boot or shoe print
- button

Entered Into Evidence:

- a plastic baggie box with baggies inside in living room
- blue t-shirt on living room floor
- paperback book "John Travolta" on living room floor next to t-shirt
- Grossman's sale paper on living room floor
- notes on notepaper found on living room floor
- Current Energy ad Ecology magazine on living room floor
- blue jacket with red/white stripes, blood on jacket, on living room floor
- song book - "Sessions in Sound" - found on living room floor
- song notebook with sheet music inside on living room floor
- recorder tape found on table in living room, cassette
- one pair of white/green socks found on living room floor under v # 3
- " " of red shorts in floor in front of couch, blood on them
- " " of blue tennis shoes on floor in front of couch, blood on them
- " " of green tennis shoes on floor in front of couch, blood on them
- " " of blue/green/silver tennis shoes on floor in front of couch, blood on them
- one brown purse on floor at end of couch in living room
- one Sanyo brand cassette player on floor at end of couch in living room
- photograph of missing daughter Tina taken from photo case in kitchen (for ID purposes)
- TV in living room, partially dusted for prints, no prints lifted
- coffee cup on TV tray at end of couch in living room
- fingernail polish remover on same TV tray
- tube of glue on same TV tray
- a telephone book
- a dress, found under the cabin



ITEMS MISSING

- Toolbox made by Johnny Sharp
- Diarama shoebox project belonging to Tina





Found in rubbish dumpster of general store:

- Bloody tissue
- Red-handled pocket knife
- Cardboard box with blood on it
- Bloody toilet tissue twisted at the end

_________


(this is an ordering of events according to evidence, not correlated to actual clock time - yet)

(a work in progress - merely at collation stage at this time)

- Sue was gagged with the bandana before tape was applied to the gag
- Sue's hands were taped before they were bound with cord
- Sue's feet were not bound before the violence escalated
- the cassette player was on the floor before Dana was placed on the cushion
- a lot of blood had already soaked into the carpet before the cushion was placed over it
- shoes on the floor were moved around after the cords were cut





-- and a couple answers!


These are some questions raised by discussion in chat, which we think have at least a hope of being answered.


- what was the other cord used to bind Sue, aside from the black electrical cord? was it two halves of the same cord?two separate cords? which was used for hand and which for feet?
-- what evidence was gained by examination of victim's fingernails?

-- where's the blue floral wallpaper in the photo from?
A: It's been discerned that the 'wallpaper' is in fact a bed sheet.

-- was the bathroom or kitchen basin wet when the cops came in?
-- carpet in girl's room - was it disturbed at all?
-- where were the cords binding Sue from?
-- what evidence was found in or around the TV corner?

-- was blood found under tape? was the blood taped over?
A: To the best of our knowledge, there was no blood under the tape.

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS

-- was semen found anywhere on the scene?

--what were the weather conditions in Keddie at the time of the murders?
A: It has been discerned that the weather was reasonably warm in that area.

-- was Sue's car locked, and where were the keys found, if at all?
-- are all the cords used from the back end of the house? if not all, which not?
-- where was Sue's pillow?
-- where was the dumpster of the general store, exactly?
-- where was John's BB gun? was it found in his room? anywhere?
Last edited by Ausgirl on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:54 pm, edited 49 times in total.

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Re: Crime Scene Evidence- JUST THE FACTS, MA'AM- (Restored)

Postby jhancock » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:25 am

I think I can help answering a lot of these. These are some awesome questions!

I'll start in on them tonight. :)

These are some questions raised by discussion in chat, which we think have at least a hope of being answered.

-- what was Sue wearing, exactly, under her robe? A brasier that was partially stained with blood, and nothing else.

-- how was Sue seen, from the front door? ie, what was the most noticeable thing about the way she was positioned? At first she was covered with a sheet and a blanket, so that is all anyone would have seen looking through the front door. With the blanket and sheet removed, the most noticeable thing would be the blood on her bare feet. If you were standing at the front door, you would only be able to see her from the back; in other words, she was turned toward the couch.

-- what part of Sue, exactly, did the blanket cover? what didn't it cover? All of her.

- what was the other cord used to bind Sue, aside from the black electrical cord? was it two halves of the same cord?two seperate cords? which was used for hand and which for feet? Will respond to this at a later time.

-- where was Dana's head, -exactly - on the cushion? On the bottom right corner.

-- where, exactly, on Dana were signs of lividity, and where were they not? Will respond to this at a later time.

-- what kind of cloth is the 'white cloth', exactly? Unsure.

--what lights were on at time of discovery? was the TV on then? Unsure. I do not believe the TV was on. I can look into the lights.

-- 2 cig packs found - what brands? Still trying to find.

-- can we get phone records? The PCSO did gather phone records of the last five calls made from the house. They were all to family members/relatives of the Sharp family.

-- when were the dogs brought in? Unsure.

-- what did the dogs pick up - or not pick up? Nothing, as far as I know.

-- was luminol used? If not, why was it not used? Don't believe so. Don't know why it was not.

-- what evidence was gained by examination of victim's fingernails? Will respond to this at a later time.

-- whose blue bandana was used as a gag? I believe it was Johnny's.

-- where's the blue floral wallpaper in the photo from? Not sure from where in the house. Will try to find.

-- where is the sack of clothes Dana is reported to have carried? Unsure.

-- whose shoes are on the floor? Unsure.

-- which bodies were/ were not wearing shoes? All victims were wearing their shoes except for Sue.

-- was the bathroom or kitchen basin wet when the cops came in? I don't think we will ever know the answer to this, but I will look.

-- carpet in girl's room - was it disturbed at all? Unsure.

-- were all hammers from the house? if not, which one? Yes, the three weapons (hammer, steak knife, butcher knife) belonged to the Sharp family.

-- where were the cords binding Sue from? Looking into this.

-- were the knife marks a perimeter, ie, around a body? I do not believe so.

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Postby josh hancock » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:37 pm
-- was the hammer or the butcher knife on the left? If you are looking at the weapons from the front door, the butcher knife is on the left, hammer on the right.

-- what evidence was found in or around the TV corner? Looking into this.

-- where, exactly, was the bent knife found? If you are standing in the front doorway, it would be on Johnny's right on the floor.

-- was blood found under tape? was the blood taped over? Looking into it.

-- was the tape on Dana's leg the remnant of binding? Unsure.

-- was the footstool wiped clean? Unsure.
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